Another tag up question

[snoman76]

While reading an earlier post about tagging and whether the run counts or not made this cross my mind.

Runners on 2nd and 3rd 1 out. Fly ball to right center and is caught. BOTH runners left early, the defense appealed by tagging the runner that was on 2nd who was passed 3rd at this point and the runner that was on 3rd crossed the plate well before the tag was made. The question is since the defense tagged the runner that was originally on 2nd would the run count?

 

[Bullbuck]

Yes, the run counts. Saw this happen in a Little League district finals game a few years ago. I wish I could cite you to a rule, but that was the call of several umpires I know and respect.

The proper appeal play would be made to third. Third out, no run scores, inning over.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

As described, it is a timing play since neither runner was forced. FYI, tagging a forced runner before they reach the next base is still a force out.

Even though the appeal of R2 was the 3rd out, the defense could still have prevented a run from scoring by making a 4th-out appeal of the runner that scored.

 

[BretMan2]

The question is since the defense tagged the runner that was originally on 2nd would the run count?

All good answers so far!

By the way you worded the question, I'm wondering if you think that tagging the runner yields a different outcome than if the defense threw the ball to second and tagged the base.

It doesn't. Many people think that if the base is tagged it's a force out. It's not, and doesn't change any of the answers already given.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Excellent point Bretman - a lot of people mistakenly think a runner having to tag up is a force out.

 

[snoman76]

As described, it is a timing play since neither runner was forced. FYI, tagging a forced runner before they reach the next base is still a force out.

Even though the appeal of R2 was the 3rd out, the defense could still have prevented a run from scoring by making a 4th-out appeal of the runner that scored.

What you're saying is in this case making the 4th out by appealing at 3rd would take the run off the board correct?

 

[snoman76]

By the way you worded the question, I'm wondering if you think that tagging the runner yields a different outcome than if the defense threw the ball to second and tagged the base.
.

No, I just wanted to give the exact scenario to what happened. This actually happened in a semi final game my team was in. Not knowing this rule cost us the game. My 3rd base coach thought there were 2 outs so on contact she sent the runners. The 3rd out was made on the runner that was originally on 2nd and nothing made on the girl that was on 3rd. When I asked the umpire to explain the situation so I understood it he said that when they tagged the runner it was the 3rd out and the inning was over. I asked if the run counted since it crossed the plate first and he said it didn't matter because the 3rd out was made on a...dont recall if he used the word "force" but that's what was implied.

 

[BretMan2]

What you're saying is in this case making the 4th out by appealing at 3rd would take the run off the board correct?

Yep.

But I'm wondering if an umpire that didn't know that the run initially counted (which is a basic rule) would know that the same run could be wiped out by a fourth out appeal play (which is a not-so-basic rule).

 

[snoman76]

Thanks all for your answers