Coaches who utilize subs PLEASE READ!!

[softballdad1999]

I apologize in advance for this as I'm sure this will turn into a heated discussion quickly!

Yes this is coming from a parent, which I'm sure my opinion will hold very little weight in the grand scheme of things but here goes nothing...


I'm constantly seeing coaches post about needing subs/utility player for such and such date; however, i see many of these posts fall on deaf ears. Im a naturally curious person so i decided to find out for myself always why these post were going unanswered.

Within 4 weekends subbing, I quickly realize why!

Before anyone begins to judge me, I'm not one of those parents who wear rose colored glasses; I know my daughter is far from perfect and is never the best player on any team regardless of the team rank. With that being said, my daughter plays for an "A" ball team. In order to recieve a true evaluation i had my daughter sub for all levels of teams: which includes another "A" team, a "B" team (not an "A" team that classifies themselves as a "B") a "C" team and finally a "C" team (which was basically a rec team. The results of my study were astonishing to say the least and I will share them with you.

First, all teams we subbed for had 9-10 of their regular players at all the games!

The "A" team played my daughter every inning of every game that weekend. My daughter had the highest at bat percentage and was awarded mvp for her defense in 2 out of the 5 games

The "B" team played my daughter 2 whole games and then only let her hit the other 2 games; again she had the highest at bat percentage .

The "C" team played her 1 1/2 games out of 4. Since she pitches they used the excuse "they were saving her" for a time that never came!

Finally the other "c" (rec team) played her 1 game the whole weekend; this team also used the excuse "they were saving her" again for a time that never happened!

This is where I'm going to request coaches to please do not request a sub if you have a full roster and would just like an extra player or two unless you plan on playing them!

Honestly Coaches, if you find yourself in the situation to where you needs subs and a parent agrees to allow their child to help your team out; please, for the love of God, treat your sub as if she is a permanent member of your team. Be fair to both the sub and your team. At the very least, make your intentions known as to how many games the player will be subbing, sitting etc.

Parents do not want to waste their time, travel 100s of miles, book rooms, and spend tons of money to watch their daughter play a game or 2 the whole weekend!!!!

It is my opinion (and I could be wrong, as God knows I have been on several occasions) this is why many players are available, but refuse to sub!!!!

 

[TheSoftballZone]

I apologize in advance for this as I'm sure this will turn into a heated discussion quickly!

Yes this is coming from a parent, which I'm sure my opinion will hold very little weight in the grand scheme of things but here goes nothing...


I'm constantly seeing coaches post about needing subs/utility player for such and such date; however, i see many of these posts fall on deaf ears. Im a naturally curious person so i decided to find out for myself always why these post were going unanswered.

Within 4 weekends subbing, I quickly realize why!

Before anyone begins to judge me, I'm not one of those parents who wear rose colored glasses; I know my daughter is far from perfect and is never the best player on any team regardless of the team rank. With that being said, my daughter plays for an "A" ball team. In order to recieve a true evaluation i had my daughter sub for all levels of teams: which includes another "A" team, a "B" team (not an "A" team that classifies themselves as a "B") a "C" team and finally a "C" team (which was basically a rec team. The results of my study were astonishing to say the least and I will share them with you.

First, all teams we subbed for had 9-10 of their regular players at all the games!

The "A" team played my daughter every inning of every game that weekend. My daughter had the highest at bat percentage and was awarded mvp for her defense in 2 out of the 5 games

The "B" team played my daughter 2 whole games and then only let her hit the other 2 games; again she had the highest at bat percentage .

The "C" team played her 1 1/2 games out of 4. Since she pitches they used the excuse "they were saving her" for a time that never came!

Finally the other "c" (rec team) played her 1 game the whole weekend; this team also used the excuse "they were saving her" again for a time that never happened!

This is where I'm going to request coaches to please do not request a sub if you have a full roster and would just like an extra player or two unless you plan on playing them!

Honestly Coaches, if you find yourself in the situation to where you needs subs and a parent agrees to allow their child to help your team out; please, for the love of God, treat your sub as if she is a permanent member of your team. Be fair to both the sub and your team. At the very least, make your intentions known as to how many games the player will be subbing, sitting etc.

Parents do not want to waste their time, travel 100s of miles, book rooms, and spend tons of money to watch their daughter play a game or 2 the whole weekend!!!!

It is my opinion (and I could be wrong, as God knows I have been on several occasions) this is why many players are available, but refuse to sub!!!!

I agree we had to pickup a sub once or twice and we always told the girls on the team this. Girls were going to need to pickup a sub on these weekends. We can't ask a player to come help us out and not play. So everyone understand your playing time will be less then normal. Girl are you all good with this?

 

[TheSoftballZone]

What surprise me the most is the second C team. I mean, man when I coached a C team everyone playing time was the same.

We rotated 2 players ever inning. But no one set more then one inning unless they were sick, hurt unles the pitcher or catcher ask for a break. We won or lost playing everyone and the girls all had fun and the parents were always happy because they got to watch their kid play..

 

[softballdad1999]

What surprise me the most is the second C team. I mean, man when I coached a C team everyone playing time was the same.

We rotated 2 players ever inning. But no one set more then one inning unless they were sick, hurt unles the pitcher or catcher ask for a break. We won or lost playing everyone and the girls all had fun and the parents were always happy because they got to watch their kid play..

The 2 "c" teams seemed to care more about what position each player played in than winning games

Hopefully this thread will give coaches perspective as to why they can't find subs. Also, I pray this brings awareness to the situation at hand! Its entirely possible we just subbed for some bad coaches; hopefully, this problem isn't prevalent throughout the whole industry!

As for now, my daughter will not sub again!

 

[google1]

I notice some teams pick up "subs" looking for a better player than they have.
Example... team A has already played team B 3 times this season. Team A has lost to team B all 3 times.
New tournament weekend... team A draws team B in their pool once again. Team A brings in a "sub" player to help them win since they have already lost 3 prior times.

I hate when I see teams do this!!

 

[DanMaz]

I apologize in advance for this as I'm sure this will turn into a heated discussion quickly!

Yes this is coming from a parent, which I'm sure my opinion will hold very little weight in the grand scheme of things but here goes nothing...


I'm constantly seeing coaches post about needing subs/utility player for such and such date; however, i see many of these posts fall on deaf ears. Im a naturally curious person so i decided to find out for myself always why these post were going unanswered.

Within 4 weekends subbing, I quickly realize why!

Before anyone begins to judge me, I'm not one of those parents who wear rose colored glasses; I know my daughter is far from perfect and is never the best player on any team regardless of the team rank. With that being said, my daughter plays for an "A" ball team. In order to recieve a true evaluation i had my daughter sub for all levels of teams: which includes another "A" team, a "B" team (not an "A" team that classifies themselves as a "B") a "C" team and finally a "C" team (which was basically a rec team. The results of my study were astonishing to say the least and I will share them with you.

First, all teams we subbed for had 9-10 of their regular players at all the games!

The "A" team played my daughter every inning of every game that weekend. My daughter had the highest at bat percentage and was awarded mvp for her defense in 2 out of the 5 games

The "B" team played my daughter 2 whole games and then only let her hit the other 2 games; again she had the highest at bat percentage .

The "C" team played her 1 1/2 games out of 4. Since she pitches they used the excuse "they were saving her" for a time that never came!

Finally the other "c" (rec team) played her 1 game the whole weekend; this team also used the excuse "they were saving her" again for a time that never happened!

This is where I'm going to request coaches to please do not request a sub if you have a full roster and would just like an extra player or two unless you plan on playing them!

Honestly Coaches, if you find yourself in the situation to where you needs subs and a parent agrees to allow their child to help your team out; please, for the love of God, treat your sub as if she is a permanent member of your team. Be fair to both the sub and your team. At the very least, make your intentions known as to how many games the player will be subbing, sitting etc.

Parents do not want to waste their time, travel 100s of miles, book rooms, and spend tons of money to watch their daughter play a game or 2 the whole weekend!!!!

It is my opinion (and I could be wrong, as God knows I have been on several occasions) this is why many players are available, but refuse to sub!!!!

I hate to play devils advocate here BUT ... your experiences dont reflect the majority of teams and how they treat subs. this is a sample size in the BIG picture and a lot of bits and pcs go into what where and why and how things work. All coaches do things their own way but i feel most subs are treated fairly. I would suggest better communication with the head coach PRE - SUBBING to see if you agree with play time and want to take a trip or play with this team for this weekend and get all the details before you commit. A B or C... i dont think has much to do with treating subs any differently. Remember this... if your subbing - how much team fees did you pay this year for the org your subbing with? probably none. You probably wont even have to buy a shirt to match the team since most coaches carry extra uni's for this exact reason of needing a sub. it happens a lot but not due to unfair treatment and i think if your team is in a good "position" strong, doing the right tourney's have great coaches... you wont have trouble finding subs at all. JMHO

 

[M & R Davis]

Here’s our experience both from a coach that has had to use subs and from a player subbing for others perspective.

When I had to use a sub I treated them just like I did my other players with one exception. If the sub put us at 10 total I would Never start the sub the first game even if I knew her. Figured someone had to sit the beginning of the first game and only made sense to me it be the sub. After that first inning or two then it was as normal going forward. Come bracket play I started my 9 best and rotated accordingly.

From a player standpoint it has been 1.5 years or so since my daughter last subbed. Have had very good experiences for the most part and actually a couple of the coaches we subbed for I now call friends and we still talk frequently and catch up when we happen to cross paths at the ball fields. Some of the coaches I’ve never spoken to since we subbed but all worked good and they got what they needed and we got what we wanted as far as reps go so all good. Only 1 was bad and it was REALLY bad. Also likely not a coincidence that it seems like this guy is fairly consistently looking for subs.

Sorry your experience didn’t work out for the best but I do think that there are good opportunities to get some reps with subbing when your team is not playing.

 

[daboss]

I believe every coach has an agenda when it comes to playing time. Whether it's a sub or a regular roster player, they get tunnel vision when it comes time to do the right thing. I'm in agreement with the post that mentions to not advertise for a sub when you already have enough roster players. Trying to "pad" a roster will almost always bite you in the a**.

If you signed kids to play, they should play. Don't take their money to fill a roster. Put them in! If those rogue weekends spring up and your lil Cat or Jennie can't be there for the weekend, make do with your roster. You might be surprised and that girl that's been getting little playing time might turn out to be a hidden gem. Bottom line; you owe it to her. You took her money!

Now, if I ever had a player or players tell me they weren't playing for a weekend, the sub/subs were there to replace her/them. She/they are not there to replace a player on my season roster that comes. If the kid shows up anyway, it would be under the understanding the sub would indeed play. If I have to go thru all the trouble to find a replacement, I'm going to promise that sub playing time for helping us out. I appreciate the regular player coming but she will be used sparingly as the sub in the event of injury or somebody needing a break. Maybe for a base runner or possible at bat. My experience has been your roster'd players will normally give you the same or better result than bringing in a ringer of a sub. Team chemistry can many times outplay an individual talent.

One of my gimmicks I used to implement was the "A List" of players. The "A List" were players that wanted to be involved but not selected to be on the original roster. The kids were offered a chance to practice and even travel with the team if they wanted but are not promised field time during games. They would receive a uniform to wear but had to turn it back in after the last game. They warmed up, shagged balls, sat in the dugout, and were included on the roster to make them eligible to play. In the event we would have players miss we went to our "A List" to call up to fill a void. They did not "pay to play" yet they still benefited from the experience and instruction. This worked very well in our rural environment where girls would leave us for weekends or during the week due to other commitments. It was like having an expanded roster but kept things real and fair.

Pitchers are always a sought after commodity. Don't take a pitcher on as a sub and leave her on the bench. Don't pitch a sub pitcher and leave your own roster pitchers to watch. If you already have pitchers, use them. They've been practicing and waiting for the opportunity. Only if they tell you they are not ready for whatever the reason do you bring in a sub pitcher that would keep them out of the circle. Remember; team chemistry can and normally will be your friend and keep harmony within the ranks.

 

[jpkeating]

My daughter is a pitcher and use to sub, most of the time she was there to eat innings and help the team win games. We were fortunate and never had a bad experience. As a matter of fact there were 2 or 3 teams she subbed for multiple times over the years. allot of the coach’s wouldn’t even look for a sub pitcher. They would just call her and if she was available that weekend she would usally do it.

 

[FC2019]

i have been in this position as a parent and a coach if you have 9 u need 10 just in case and as a parent i understood my kid was a sub and its not her team and there 9 girls are more important to there team i am there for free and just grateful for the free reps and as a coach if u are going into a tourney with 9 u need 10 just in case but i have always played my girls over the sub the subs will hit and play too but at the end of the day if u keep bringing in subs and playing them over ur normal kids you wont have any kids left but with that said i am usually up front with it so they know

 

[Stedman00]

IMO - if you ask for subs, you better play them. Or next time you ask for subs, you won't get any.

 

[DanMaz]

I apologize in advance for this as I'm sure this will turn into a heated discussion quickly!

Yes this is coming from a parent, which I'm sure my opinion will hold very little weight in the grand scheme of things but here goes nothing...


I'm constantly seeing coaches post about needing subs/utility player for such and such date; however, i see many of these posts fall on deaf ears. Im a naturally curious person so i decided to find out for myself always why these post were going unanswered.

Within 4 weekends subbing, I quickly realize why!

Before anyone begins to judge me, I'm not one of those parents who wear rose colored glasses; I know my daughter is far from perfect and is never the best player on any team regardless of the team rank. With that being said, my daughter plays for an "A" ball team. In order to recieve a true evaluation i had my daughter sub for all levels of teams: which includes another "A" team, a "B" team (not an "A" team that classifies themselves as a "B") a "C" team and finally a "C" team (which was basically a rec team. The results of my study were astonishing to say the least and I will share them with you.

First, all teams we subbed for had 9-10 of their regular players at all the games!

The "A" team played my daughter every inning of every game that weekend. My daughter had the highest at bat percentage and was awarded mvp for her defense in 2 out of the 5 games

The "B" team played my daughter 2 whole games and then only let her hit the other 2 games; again she had the highest at bat percentage .

The "C" team played her 1 1/2 games out of 4. Since she pitches they used the excuse "they were saving her" for a time that never came!

Finally the other "c" (rec team) played her 1 game the whole weekend; this team also used the excuse "they were saving her" again for a time that never happened!

This is where I'm going to request coaches to please do not request a sub if you have a full roster and would just like an extra player or two unless you plan on playing them!

Honestly Coaches, if you find yourself in the situation to where you needs subs and a parent agrees to allow their child to help your team out; please, for the love of God, treat your sub as if she is a permanent member of your team. Be fair to both the sub and your team. At the very least, make your intentions known as to how many games the player will be subbing, sitting etc.

Parents do not want to waste their time, travel 100s of miles, book rooms, and spend tons of money to watch their daughter play a game or 2 the whole weekend!!!!

It is my opinion (and I could be wrong, as God knows I have been on several occasions) this is why many players are available, but refuse to sub!!!!

lets look at from the other side.... my DD is on a team and she paid full team fees probably upwards of $1200 or more.... Does she deserve to be sat in order for a sub who hasnt paid a dime and she is going to play instead of my kid? oh boy..... see how far that goes b4 someone freaks out. lol (hasnt happended to me but i know it has to others)

 

[Stedman00]

lets look at from the other side.... my DD is on a team and she paid full team fees probably upwards of $1200 or more.... Does she deserve to be sat in order for a sub who hasnt paid a dime and she is going to play instead of my kid? oh boy..... see how far that goes b4 someone freaks out. lol (hasnt happended to me but i know it has to others)

I hear you, but everyone is gonna lose their mind when you can't get subs enough to play at all. And then of course you get the sub that is only there because the coach asked her, comes in and is a superstar (HR hitter, ace pitcher etc).

 

[softballdad1999]

i have been in this position as a parent and a coach if you have 9 u need 10 just in case and as a parent i understood my kid was a sub and its not her team and there 9 girls are more important to there team i am there for free and just grateful for the free reps and as a coach if u are going into a tourney with 9 u need 10 just in case but i have always played my girls over the sub the subs will hit and play too but at the end of the day if u keep bringing in subs and playing them over ur normal kids you wont have any kids left but with that said i am usually up front with it so they know

i have been in this position as a parent and a coach if you have 9 u need 10 just in case and as a parent i understood my kid was a sub and its not her team and there 9 girls are more important to there team i am there for free and just grateful for the free reps and as a coach if u are going into a tourney with 9 u need 10 just in case but i have always played my girls over the sub the subs will hit and play too but at the end of the day if u keep bringing in subs and playing them over ur normal kids you wont have any kids left but with that said i am usually up front with it so they know

i have been in this position as a parent and a coach if you have 9 u need 10 just in case and as a parent i understood my kid was a sub and its not her team and there 9 girls are more important to there team i am there for free and just grateful for the free reps and as a coach if u are going into a tourney with 9 u need 10 just in case but i have always played my girls over the sub the subs will hit and play too but at the end of the day if u keep bringing in subs and playing them over ur normal kids you wont have any kids left but with that said i am usually up front with it so they know

To be fair, let's look at it from another perspective. I have seen the statement that subs do not pay fees to play; or be greatful for reps or play time. You're right, they do not pay the organization directly to be part of that team for that tournament. However, what about the cost associated with traveling to said tournament. Let me through out this hypothetical situation:

sub is located in western Ohio but the tournament is scheduled in northeastern Ohio. For this situation say drive time is 3 or more hours one way. The team is to warm up at 7am on Saturday. As a precaution the subs parent's believes it best to drive up the night before to ensure she will not have an issues with travel. They book a room say for 1 night at a cost of (let's say $90.00 which is probablyto cheap) pool play ends at 5pm Saturday and the team seeds for another 8am game on Sunday. Rather than driving another 6+ hours round trip, the elect to stay for a 2nd night at the same cost. Now let's say subs parents pack snacks drinks etc but elect to eat 1 hot meal a day; even if it's just fast food (lets say $20.00 per day for a family of 2) now, we are at $180 in hotel costs, $40 in hot meals, lets say $60.00 in gas for a grand total of $280. (Which I have never gotten by that cheap but anyhow)

Then, lets talk about the emotional side of this:

Again sub comes to help your team out, yet you use her very minimally. How do you think this effects said player emotionally??? If sub comes from an "a" team down to a "b" or "c"; the writing was definitely on the wall,,they were definitely more than adequate but try explaining that to an emotional, hormonal young lady. They will still question themselves and their ability!
This will then follow said girl back into her everyday life.

I'm not unrealistic or unreasonable, I realize as a sub my daughter should sit more that the rostered players; i get that whole heartily (she does too!) However, to request a sub to come and not let them in at least a few innings in every game is beyond ridiculous.

Now that we have discussed the emotional side and figured the bare minimum cost associated; Do coaches really think parents are willing to pay this ( plus lose an off weekend to come play/help a team) only to play 1 in 4 games or 1.5 in 4 games?

Please remember this sub is there to help YOU and YOUR team out; it was mandated or required. They really are doing your team a favor and the trade off is they receive play time for their time, talent and incurring all said costs for this.

This is where I'll come full circle back to my original argument, For the LOVE OF GOD, Coaches, PLEASE do NOT request a sub if they are not needed!!!!!

 

[Dawgsdad]

If you are down to 1 pitcher due to injury and/or another conflict, are those complaining that the sub is getting more playing time while another position player who paid fees, is on the bench?

You can roll with that one pitcher and be done in the GG or you can realize 1 girl cannot throw 4-7 games in a weekend.

I understand a position player to an extent. Not everyone can play SS or be a catcher but you should be working 3 players per position

 

[Softballdadx6]

Have had five daughters over 15 years sub at occasional times. We learned quickly the best way to find a team to commit to was to sub instead of attending tryouts as the team would need their specific positions and showing game ability tends to go much better if your kid can play. We were able to check out how the players, coaches, and fans behaved before making a commitment. Four of my five players found their forever teams that way. As for regular subbing after being on a team our experience was the better the team the more they used them in games as those teams wanted to win and their players knew we were there to help. Only had two bad experiences over the many years where one team we were subbing for had their coach and a few players quit a few days before and we didn’t realize we’d be showing up for a special kind of weekend drama. The second one was this past winter as a “B” team that thinks they are “A” caliber had us drive five hours and then when we got there they said the player she was going to play for decided to show up so they’d be playing their player and loaning my daughter to a team we were playing since that team was short of players. My daughter was berated for making plays against the team that loaned her out. Truthfully she had a better time playing for the other team in that first game then had to go spend the next few hours with a less than nice squad. We still looked at it as we got to spend time together, made another funny memory, and she can’t wait to play them...if they are still playing lol.

We have told every team that our player would play as much or as little as they needed and all except the last team was more than fair. We’ve made many friends along the way and will be subbing in a few weeks when one of our two current girls playing is down should she be needed somewhere.

In short, communicate what you expect before you sub as you are there to help a team that’s in need and others have paid.

 

[FC2019]

i have driven 3 plus hours to sub paid for hotels and my daughter catches i do not expect her to catch or play more then there starting catcher i have even bought the teams pizza cause i was grateful for the reps use the subbing part as free reps

 

[FC2019]

did you delete your first post ?

 

[DanMaz]

I moved the other posts (or i tried to) from the other thread. For some reason we had a dbl thread going and now it should be all in this one.
thanks!

 

[24GahannaLadyLions7]

Take care of your paying customers first..unless a P/C that you are down, then that goes out the window..you can still DP/Flex though....

necer a fan of playing a sub in bracket over one of the girls who has poured her heart, soul, and tears for you and your teachings... that’s my opinion

you really want to win a tourney on borrowed goods?? Then you are managing, not coaching... big difference