Interesting Call from Ump

[eddienite]

So here's the situation, Runner on first and 1 out. Batter hits ball to SS who throws to 2nd baseman. Runner on first takes a straight path to second base but does not slide into base. 2nd baseman fields the ball on the bag and then throws to first but batter had made it bag before throw was completed.

Umpire calls runner out at 2nd since she was not there before ball ( which is the correct call) then calls interference on the runner because he said "she did not slide into the bag" thus was obstructing the throw from the 2nd baseman to first. His ruling was she needed to slide into 2nd.

Both home plate and base ump allowed this go through. Was this the correct call? Never heard of such of thing for base running. When a runner runs straight on the base path and does not move off the path into the throwers way, I do not see how this is obstruction.

 

[Stedman00]

usually they recommend sliding to make sure you avoid the throw, cause if the throw hits the runner, then the runner is guilty of interference. But slide is not required. Might be one of those 'judgement of the umpire' areas that drive people nuts.

 

[daboss]

This was just a poor choice of wording by the umpire/umpires. To my knowledge the runner is not required to slide but cannot interfere with the impending throw. It happens. The more the girls learn about the game the more they'll understand on what they should do in situations. I'd rather have this outcome than have a coach order the defensive player to drill the runner with the throw to get the call.

The only sure fire way to avoid the controversy without hindering the advancement of the play, or the throw, is to teach the girls to slide. It's a cautionary move that possibly could get a call to favor the runner as well.

Here's the theory behind it. Sharon Drysdale did some amazing work compiling data about the best ways to execute certain plays in situations and get a positive result. Coach Drysdale studied the habits of umpires and noticed how umpires track the plays with their eyes. By a runner sliding they would be tracking downwards till the runner touched the base, then move their eyes upwards to see the ball, meaning a high/higher throw would many times result in a call favoring the runner. It's a human reactionary thing that can trigger their brain to make a call go one way or another in the event of a close call------or some times a not so close call. By going in standing the runner makes the event easier on the umpire. The mindset of an umpire is they should avoid conflict. That triggers the response in the brain.

FYI, ever notice how the greatest defensive players seem to get the calls to favor them by "flagging" a tag on a runner sliding? Same kind of theory. It's not just about presenting the ball to the ump. When a defensive player does a sweeping tag to a sliding runner and holds the ball high in the air afterwards the umpires instinctively track the ball, and it pulls their eyes away from the actual tag to the runner upwards, favoring a call of out on the runner. As spectators we see from a distance that at times no tag at all transpired, yet the umpire holds up his thumb. Our viewpoint lets our eyes see a larger picture of the play compared to the umpire's viewpoint. By leaving the tag on the runner the entire episode it can trigger an unconscious response by the umpire that the defensive player missed or was late with the tag, favoring the runner. Drysdale noticed umpires would favor the defensive player even when the throw and sweep was so early that no contact was ever made, simply because. We've all seen it. We simply didn't understand the reasoning.

Some times we get lucky and get a call. Or is it luck?????

 

[DanMaz]

tough to give the correct response to your question without actually seeing it happen. Obviously it was enough for both umps to agree that there was some type of obstruction. I would start teaching girls to automatically slide at any play at any base. That should be taught at very young age and continue to beat it in their heads. Slide! it wouldn't hurt to have a conversation with blue between innings or after the play just to get their side.

sometimes you just gotta take the call the way it was made and just keep playing. You will never get every call your way. Its just part of the game.

 

[CARDS]

 

[Paul Gallagher]

There’s a fine line between gamesmanship and putting a player in danger when they interfere with the play. It’s the umpires’s responsibility to call interference; it shouldn’t be up to the defensive player to decide.

 

[BretMan2]

A runner is NEVER required to slide, no matter what base, no matter what play.

The only way this is interference would be if the retired runner somehow impeded the fielder or her throw. The post says that the fielder got the throw off, but it doesn’t really describe if the retired runner hindered or impeded the fielder.

But to call a runner out “just because she didn’t slide”? No!

 

[Paul Gallagher]

Softball rules may be different, but high school baseball, I found this on the internet.
“NFHS 32 - SLIDE
2-32-2 A slide is illegal if:

1. the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases.”

 

[Captain_Thunder]

Softball rules may be different, but high school baseball, I found this on the internet.
“NFHS 32 - SLIDE
2-32-2 A slide is illegal if:

1. the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases.”

This rule is in regard to the Runner trying to takeout the Fielder. If the SS catches the ball on the base, then continues to step out to make the throw to 1st - the Runner can't slide out towards him to try to break it up....

 

[BretMan2]

High school baseball has the Force Play Slide Rule, which is posted above. High school softball does not. Even then, a runner isn't required to slide. The rule just says that if they do slide, it has to be done legally, then it defines what a legal slide is.

 

[eddienite]

For some additional information on the original post. The runner from first to second ran directly in the base path. She was about 3-5 feet from the bag when 2nd baseman got the ball from the SS and tag the bag. This is very similar to one of the plays in the Video posted by CARDs. She wanted the 2nd baseman to move off the bag to make the throw. She did not touch 2nd base until after the throw was made. The batter made it to first before the ball arrived. ( faster runner compared to one running to 2nd)

On another thought, what if she just stopped running before touching the 2nd base? This again forces the 2nd baseman to throw around her. I realize as mentioned in other posts that if the 2nd base threw the ball in her direction that she would have to get out of the way in order to avoid obstruction. Is that a correct assumption also?

 

[CARDS]

I had a player ejected and had to sit out 2 games on a questionable call about sliding. It was in a high school game in 2018. Bases loaded and the pitcher pitches ball four to our batter that went over the catchers head.

The pitcher runs home and stands on the plate as the catcher tosses her the ball. (There was no play on the runner scoring since she was awarded home on the walk and everyone advanced one base). My runner that was on third base at the time of the walk / pass ball collided with the pitcher knocking her down. (she was jogging home).


The umpire had warned her earlier in the inning when she went from first to second on a wild pitch for not sliding as she ran into the SS standing on the bag with no ball or even a throw. I told him you need to warn the fielder about standing in the baseline / base when there is no play his responses was the runner needs to avoid contact.


The umpire immediately ejected her from the game after the collision at the plate. Then preceded to say the run did not count and made us take an out.

I went to the other umpire to plead my case and he said “well, you all were warned about not sliding”.

We run ruled the team and I gave the umpire crew a bad review on the OHSAA official review but honestly those go nowhere. The parents in attendance were going nuts especially the player that was ejected parents. I thought her dad was going to follow the home plate umpire to his car so I called the AD to pick up the umpires in the gator and take them to their cars. Crazy…

 

[daboss]

I had a player ejected and had to sit out 2 games on a questionable call about sliding. It was in a high school game in 2018. Bases loaded and the pitcher pitches ball four to our batter that went over the catchers head.

The pitcher runs home and stands on the plate as the catcher tosses her the ball. (There was no play on the runner scoring since she was awarded home on the walk and everyone advanced one base). My runner that was on third base at the time of the walk / pass ball collided with the pitcher knocking her down. (she was jogging home).


The umpire had warned her earlier in the inning when she went from first to second on a wild pitch for not sliding as she ran into the SS standing on the bag with no ball or even a throw. I told him you need to warn the fielder about standing in the baseline / base when there is no play his responses was the runner needs to avoid contact.


The umpire immediately ejected her from the game after the collision at the plate. Then preceded to say the run did not count and made us take an out.

I went to the other umpire to plead my case and he said “well, you all were warned about not sliding”.

We run ruled the team and I gave the umpire crew a bad review on the OHSAA official review but honestly those go nowhere. The parents in attendance were going nuts especially the player that was ejected parents. I thought her dad was going to follow the home plate umpire to his car so I called the AD to pick up the umpires in the gator and take them to their cars. Crazy…

Lord knows you should not have gone thru all that Cards. There are bad apples in every aspect of life. What's more unsettling is the OHSAA didn't do anything about the umps in question to your knowledge. They should at least followed up with an explanation to you. Very disrespectful.