Presenting the ball, pitching rules

[krrcoach]

Per NFHS 2009, the only physical copy I could find in my garage...
Rule 6 Pitching Section 1
"ART. 1 . . . Prior to starting the delivery (pitch), the pitcher shall take a position with the pivot foot on or partially on the top surface of the pitcher?s plate and the non-pivot foot in contact with or behind the pitchers plate. Both teet must be on the ground within or partially within the 24-inch length ot the pitcher?s plate.

a. Prior to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with shoulders in line with first and third base with the ball in the glove or pitching hand, and with the hands separated."

Is there any rule set (ASA, USSSA, NSA, ABC, etc) where the ball must be in the pitching hand and not the glove? Two officials and opposing coaches were convinced that the ball must be in the pitching hand and not the glove. Unfortunately my rule book wasn't with me, so we did it their way for the game.

 

[Stedman00]

I don't have the exact regs in front of me, but you sir were the victim of at least 3 idiots. Were they also chirping about having to actually present the ball? that rule was changed long ago.

 

[0203bbmom]

Always been my understanding hands must be separated. No rule on "presenting" the ball. Only that the glove hand and pitching hand must be separated.

 

[Comp]

You can pretty much be assured anyone who uses the term presenting the ball has no clue what the pitching rules really are. No rule set I am aware of requires the ball to be "presented" or in the throwing hand. I believe some slow pitch rules have verbage about the ball cannot be delivered from the glove. The ball can be in either the hand or the glove when the pitcher engages the pitching plate, the hands must simply be separated and remain separated long enough to simulate taking a signal.

 

[daboss]

I'm going to show my age and sorry I can't take time right now to do my homework BUT the rules at 1 time required the ball be held in the open hand and visible to the umpire and batter prior to taking a signal and/or beginning the pitch. The beginning of the pitch is when both hands and ball touch or I believe the proper term back then was "come together." ASA and USSSA had very similar wording and both mentioned that both feet were to be in contact with the 24-inch long pitching plate when the hands came together. High school allows a step back in the wind up after the hands come together where no other sanction allows such a thing in ladies fastpitch. I believe men's rules permit a step back even today.

College; I believe their rules allow both hands together and will still recognize it legal if the ball is hidden in the glove the entire time. I think this is where there could be some confusion when making comparisons. A few years back I questioned some umpires at a local tourney and ALL were taking liberties to explain what they considered "legal" and ALL had their own opinion on what they would call "illegal" in terms of pre-wind up. ALL agreed the hands and ball had to come together and feet on the rubber.

Like most instructors for women, I do not teach a step back motion due to school ball being the only sanction that allows it. We simulate it by beginning the wind up with the toe behind but still touching the rubber and remaining in contact thru wind up. We 'step out" once forward motion is made in the windmill pitch. I teach the presentation with the ball in open hand because I know it is accepted everywhere (United States) in all sanctions as "legal." When the pitcher brings glove hand and ball hand together, I teach them to put the ball into the glove and configure their fingers on the ball for the upcoming pitch before beginning the back swing and step back motion. Again, legal in every way to my knowledge. Ernie Parker taught this to be legal everywhere and his scope was tested internationally. The college stuff is so present anymore with coverage on TV I believe it is making all of us rethink things. That's difficult with the subtle changes in rules between sanctioning bodies.

 

[BretMan2]

I hate it when a coach tries to get a bogus imaginary rule enforced. But I hate it even more when an umpire does it!

Many years ago- way before my time!- I've been told that some version of "presenting" the ball was in the rule books. That was changed sometime back in the 70's or 80's. Today, the only rule book I'm aware of that uses any wording about "present the ball" is USSSA slow pitch. Even then, there's no requirement to hold the ball in the bare hand alone, just that it must be held in front of the body in either one or both hands.

"Presenting the ball" is just one of those quirky rule MYTHS that people hear repeated over and over again until they finally think that it must be true. Lump it in with "the hands are part of the bat", "a batter can't switch sides of the plate after two strikes", and "if a coach touches a base runner she it out". All false...but all rule myths that I've heard since I was playing ball as a kid and still hear to this day!

 

[Comp]

High school allows a step back in the wind up after the hands come together

Yes, high school allows a step back but it must be done prior to the hands coming together, if the pitcher steps back after the hands are together it is an illegal pitch.

 

[wow]

"Presenting the ball" is just one of those quirky rule MYTHS that people hear repeated over and over again until they finally think that it must be true. Lump it in with "the hands are part of the bat", "a batter can't switch sides of the plate after two strikes", and "if a coach touches a base runner she it out". All false...but all rule myths that I've heard since I was playing ball as a kid and still hear to this day!

So here is a question. How many times has ANYONE heard a winning coach say any of that? When I mean winning, I mean ahead in the game? I suspect these are things coaches who are losing and presumably bad, and have been outcoached or simple ran out of strategy. Usually you hear this garble in REC ball from a delusional dad or mom in the stands. There are, sadly, times I have heard it from a coach.

 

[krrcoach]

Thank you, I am pretty comfortable with NFHS and ASA, but I am not sure if this is in some other sanction or rec league rules. I guess I need to put my books back in my "game day" bag.

I think I gave "thumbs up" to the replies, so if for some reason someone got a "thumbs down" from me, it was by mistake. I think I did that once before

 

[3ballbratz]

I love the "presenting the ball " trick. Lol. It usually comes after DD has racked up a bunch of k's, like she has gained some sort of advantage. Almost every umpire rules in favor of the coach. It used to frustrate me because it would throw her off balance and she would start to throw more balls. Now i love it ,she just smiles and throws every pitch 63+ all day

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

Bret Man : Pg 34-Sec 4 - A. Dead on. I am going to guess that is because USSSA Slow-Pitch allows faking and jumping around prior to the delivery. And believe it or not I have actually seen 2 guys strike out swinging in slow-pitch.

When I was with NSA, I remember hearing one of the rules gurus say that the pitcher has to simulate taking a signal from the catcher with the hands separated and the pitch officially started when the hands came together. I could never find that exact wording but who knew with NSA back then. The guy who cleaned up the rulebook ended up leaving and becoming the USSSA rulebook chair and got it cleaned up. There loss, our gain as this guy is like you and rules guru.

I hate it when a coach tries to get a bogus imaginary rule enforced. But I hate it even more when an umpire does it!

Today, the only rule book I'm aware of that uses any wording about "present the ball" is USSSA slow pitch. Even then, there's no requirement to hold the ball in the bare hand alone, just that it must be held in front of the body in either one or both hands.

"Presenting the ball" is just one of those quirky rule MYTHS that people hear repeated over and over again until they finally think that it must be true. Lump it in with "the hands are part of the bat", "a batter can't switch sides of the plate after two strikes", and "if a coach touches a base runner she it out". All false...but all rule myths that I've heard since I was playing ball as a kid and still hear to this day!

 

[Dawgsdad]

] I agree with comp. The only issue is that the ball cannot enter the glove twice while both feet are present on the pitching rubber.

 

[Dawgsdad]

I love the "presenting the ball " trick. Lol. It usually comes after DD has racked up a bunch of k's, like she has gained some sort of advantage. Almost every umpire rules in favor of the coach. It used to frustrate me because it would throw her off balance and she would start to throw more balls. Now i love it ,she just smiles and throws every pitch 63+ all day

Hahaha....this is a situation in many summer ball tournaments with less than qulified umpires where a coach presents him or herself as very knowledgeable of the rules wins the convincing of the umpire. Study the rules before your season begins because it is almost certain, one of the obscure or misinterpreted rules will bite you in the butt

 

[daboss]

Thanks for clearing this stuff up BretMan2 and helping an old man out. I'm not beyond learning or even being proven wrong. We need the BretMan2's in the world to help educate us and personally I want to thank him for taking the time. It has made me better and I always look forward to his input on rules questions. I should have known the current pitching rules and I apologize to anyone I may have mislead. Actually, looking at the big picture I never taught anything wrong. I simply made it appear others could be and that is not acceptable. From this moment forward I will be sure everyone understands the rule as BretMan2 has shared it.

Thank you again. You know I always said it's not a sin to be stupid------it's just unhandy!

 

[krrcoach]

I love the "presenting the ball " trick. Lol. It usually comes after DD has racked up a bunch of k's...

or they see that hat your talking about! Looks like she had a good week again!