asa, nsa presenting the ball?

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Sending up the Bretman signal, but all are welcome to give their own input. DD was pitching last night, other coach claimed that DD must present the ball before the pitch. We currently play under OGSO rules and the rules clearly state that the pitcher must walk onto the rubber with both hands separate, ball may be in either bare hand or glove. Hands come together for at least one second to at the most of 10 seconds before the ball is pitched. She steps on rubber, hand seperated. She then brings them together and begins her motion. Her hands are together until she enters into her windmill (Hillhouse style). Simply, she is perfectly legal in OGSO, what is the ruling in ASA and NSA? Does the girl have to present the ball? Is presenting considering stepping on the rubber with the ball in bare hand? Some clarification and would be greatly appreciated. Also if you can site the rule I?d appreciate that as well.

 

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Ran into similar situation so will be nice to get additional input.

 

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I have seen some girls in OGSO that do not bring ball to glove (for one second) prior to starting motion. I am guessing that is what the other coach was talking about in terms of "presenting" the ball. This is in the OGSO rule book. I would be surprised if this was enforced in the OGSO regular season though. In the District tournament it might be enforced. In the State tounament it most certainly would be enforced.

I looked at the ASA rule book and it requires this, "hold the ball in both hands...." So does NFHS high school rule book. I would think NSA would have this also.

 

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The term "presenting the ball" is an outdated phrase from the rule books of 25-30 years ago. At one time, it was required for the pitcher to start out holding the ball such that it was visible to the batter (ie: "present it").

That rule was changed long ago, but the notion of "presenting the ball" has survived, incorrectly passed down each season to the point that it now qualifies as full-fledged a rule myth.

Quite simply, the term "present the ball" does not appear in modern fastpitch rule books. Instead, this old requirement was replaced by "pitching preliminaries" that govern what the pitcher must do before delivering the pitch.

Generally (with some small variations between different sanctioning bodies) the Pitching Preliminaries require the pitcher to:

- Contact the pitching plate (with either one or two feet, depending on sanction).

- Have her hands separated. The ball may be either in the bare hand or the glove. The ball may be hidden to the batter or held behind the pitcher's back.

- Pause in this position and either take a signal from the catcher OR simulate taking a signal. The purpose of this requirement is to prevent a "quick pitch" by which the pitcher steps right on the plate and immediately rolls right through with the pitch.

When all of the above requirements have been met, then the pitcher may bring her hands together and begin her wind-up and delivery.

The only thing that sounds like it might be a problem with the pitcher in the first post is her required pause to take/simulate taking a signal. From what you wrote, it kind of sounds like she was stepping on the rubber, then starting her wind-up without a pause. Maybe not...hard to tell without seeing it. If that's the case, that might be what the other coach was complaining about- but just using the "old" terminology of "presenting the ball".

 

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I have seen some girls in OGSO that do not bring ball to glove (for one second) prior to starting motion. I am guessing that is what the other coach was talking about in terms of "presenting" the ball. This is in the OGSO rule book. I would be surprised if this was enforced in the OGSO regular season though. In the District tournament it might be enforced. In the State tounament it most certainly would be enforced.

I agree this is probably what the other coach was trying to say. They need to pause as if taking a sign from the catcher. Just have her pause alittle longer and she should be fine. Two years of OGSO was enough for my DD as a pitcher.

 

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to just totallly hijack the thread I will say that some pitchers are becoming MASTERS of the quick pitch . MD

 

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Bretman, she approaches the rubber with the ball in the glove and hand at her side. Once on the rubber, right foot is on it, left foot toes on it. She then puts her right hand in the glove. Once there, her PC has her "count monkeys". Only then does she begin her windup. We want every move she makes to be legal so she doesn't have to try to correct deeply ingrained bad habits later on.

 

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Prior to this season, OGSO played by HS rules as far as I know. I see they have written their own rule book now, but it mostly follows HS rules still with a few exceptions. I don't think they changed much in the official rule book aside from incorporating some additions about time and run limits and such for various age groups. ( I have not scrutinized it thouroughly)

I suspect (guess) the complaint was regarding NOT bringing her hands together. I have seen that refered to as "presenting the ball" in the past. Some think the hands must be still when they come together, but they may be moving in the windup, but must be together at least 1 second, but not more than 10 seconds. (OGSO and NFHS. NSA only says not more than 10 seconds with no minimum, not sure what others may say.) I have seen some kids never bring their hands together at all, thus some would call that not "presenting the ball".

As long as her hands are touching for at least 1 second before she separates them during the pitch, she is legal. They may be moving into the windup. (That may be the issue the other coach had about it, but it is legal.) If she only brings them sorta close together, then that's not legal but good luck getting anyone to call it.

http://www.ogso.org/downloads/2010-OGSO-Rulebook.pdf

Page 31, rule 7

NFHS Rule 6.1c covers the hands together. 6.1 a-e covers the prelims.

NSA Rule 6-1 a-e essentially the same as NFHS.

 

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I take too long to type. Saw a couple more posts before mine was done.

Sounds like she is perfectly legal from what you say as long as she is taking a sign or simulates taking a sign. (pause before bringing the hands together) It is definitely NOT required to show the batter the ball at any point before she lets it go.

 

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The complaint was not bringing her hands together it was that she never seperated her hands until she went into the windmill. She did step on the rubber with hands seperated, ball in glove and then placed her hands together, counts five seconds, then proceeds into her motion. Everything was legal according to OGSO. What brought this post about was one of our own parents stated that ASA states you have to present and I'm not a rule expert by any means. Which as it turns out, if I'm reading this right, is a complete rule myth.

 

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Bretman: "Pause in this position and either take a signal from the catcher OR simulate taking a signal. The purpose of this requirement is to prevent a "quick pitch" by which the pitcher steps right on the plate and immediately rolls right through with the pitch."

Does this mean the pitcher CANNOT take signals from off the rubber?

 

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We discussed taking signals off the rubber a little while back, so it's still somehwat fresh in my mind. They can get the real signal anytime they want from wherever they want. They have to at least simulate taking a sign while on the rubber. So if they get the signal from behind the rubber, they can't just step up and pitch without that signal pause.

 

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Bretman: "Pause in this position and either take a signal from the catcher OR simulate taking a signal. The purpose of this requirement is to prevent a "quick pitch" by which the pitcher steps right on the plate and immediately rolls right through with the pitch."

Does this mean the pitcher CANNOT take signals from off the rubber?

No. That is another commonly misunderstood part of the Pitching Preliminaries.

A pitcher may get her signal from anywhere- the catcher, her coach, dad in the stands- before stepping on the rubber. The only requirement is that once she is in contact with the rubber, she must again pause before pitching. At that point she still might get a signal from, say, the bench or from the catcher, if she chooses. Or, if she doesn't need a signal at that point, she can merely look toward the catcher to "similate" taking a signal.

The reason and intent behind this rule is to prevent quick pitches, NOT to limit or dictate where on the field the pitcher may stand to take a signal.

 

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Its interesting umpires will ask a pitcher to present the ball. (a term long absent from the rule book) But routinely allow things that do matter like leaping, crow-hopping, replanting and pitching beyond the 24 inch rubber.

 

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Its interesting umpires will ask a pitcher to present the ball. (a term long absent from the rule book) But routinely allow things that do matter like leaping, crow-hopping, replanting and pitching beyond the 24 inch rubber.

That is interesting. Sad but true.

 

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Actually, IMO the "simulate taking a signal" part should also be dropped into myth-land along with "present the ball". Why not just simply state "Step onto the pitcher's plate with hands separated (ball may be in either hand), and pause at least one second before bringing the hands together to begin the pitch". This accomplishes the SAME objective without muddying the waters with the "simulate taking a signal" language. The objective is to create a pause in order to prevent a quick-pitch - which has nothing to do with taking signals. A one second pause is a measurable period of time, eliminating a judgment call. Again, just my opinion.

Question Bret - Let's assume a pitcher is called on an illegal pitch for the "not presenting the ball" myth (in which case she probably had the ball legally in her glove). How should a coach approach the umpire who called this? Should the coach ask for a clarification of the rule from the book, or is this a judgment call by the umpire, and not contestable?