The simple reason Cali teams are better then Ohio

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This is not rocket science, Besides the fact they can play all year here is something that I think is the biggest issue and why everyone thinks California Teams are so much better then Ohio Teams. Stats are for A.S.A. 18u and under in girls fastpitch registered teams.

A.S.A Team Registrations FOR 2008

California Girls Fastpitch Teams
1 ) Southern California ASA = 6,499
8 ) Central California ASA = 2,197
9 ) Northern California ASA = 2,147
29 ) Sacramento ASA = 859
32 ) Oakland ASA = 737
47 ) Greater San Joaquin ASA = 424

Total California A.S.A Girls Fastpitch Teams = 12,863
Total Girl Players in California 12863(teams) X 12(players per team) = 154,356 Girl Fastpitch players


Ohio Girls Fastpitch Teams
10 ) Ohio ASA = 2,092
48 ) Cleveland ASA = 420
62 ) Cincinnati ASA = 252

Total Ohio A.S.A Girls Fastpitch Teams = 2,764
Total Girl Players in Ohio 2764(teams) X 12(players per team) = 33,168 Girl Fastpitch players

TEAMS
California = 12,863
Ohio = 2,764
Difference = 10,099 more California Teams


PLAYERS
California = 154,356
Ohio = 33,168
Difference = 121,188 more California Players

California has 4.65 players/teams for every 1 Ohio player/team


And people are posting and saying that Ohio Fast Pitch is watered down,,,, wow makes them look foolish now huh.

 

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Nice break down. Ohio teams are doing pretty good I think.

 

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Now to go with this post. Should the break down of teams be about like this: 5% of teams are Gold teams, 55% are "A" teams and 40% are "B" teams.

Then Ohio should have the following combined from all age Divisions;
138 Gold Division Teams
1,520 "A" Teams
1,106 "B" Teams

I know there will be some talk about the percentages but my point is this, at 5% there would be 138 Gold Teams in Ohio, at 2% there would be 55 Gold Teams in Ohio.
Are we even close to those numbers here in Ohio. I do not think we are even close to that, do we even have 5 teams in Ohio that are in the Gold Division.

At the 2% to 5% we should have between 5 and 27 teams in each age Division that are Gold Division Teams. Maybe this is why some people feel the talent is watered down, to many teams are not in the Gold Division like they should be, instead they are crushing everyone year after year in their age groups, except for the same few teams, or always playing up in age groups at tournaments. Someone should look back through the top ten teams in each age group for the last 5 years. Are there the same 5 teams, 7 teams, etc that are always in the top 10, then shouldn't by all rights those teams move up and be Gold Division teams.

If we removed between 5 and 27 teams out of each age group, wouldn't the "A" Division be more equal in talent.

 

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With 2,764 teams in Ohio and 5 age Divisions, each age group should look something like this if the amount of teams are equal in each:

Each Age Division has 553 Teams
Gold Division - 27 teams
"A" Division - 304 teams
"B" Division - 221 teams

Does this look better, would you now say the talent is to watered down. Rather then when you have 553 teams all saying there "A" teams.

Under A.S.A RULES any team finishing in the top 4 at nationals or Hall Of Fame Tournament, must move up in Division the following year, how many teams have down that.

I believe if this was done here in Ohio things would be thought of and be looked at totally differently. The top 324 players in each age group now would only have 27 teams to choose from, verses 553 teams. The next best players all 3,648 of them would only have 304 teams to chose from instead of 553 and so on.

Now go back and look at these threads and see if things would be more in place or make more sense to you.
http://www.game-ex.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=22620
http://www.game-ex.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=22629

 

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Yes I am bored at 4:11am
But I found this from a post Dated 1/27/05

Thread was: How many "really good" teams are there??

18U Gold
Maddogs


18U
Ohio Bandits
Lasers (Pick a color doesn't matter)
Valley Sting
Illusion
Ice - Philen
Coke on Ice
Stringrays
Thunderbolts - White
Tiger Lillies

16U
Lasers (Pick a color doesn't matter)
Stingrays
Ice - Moore
Cincy Elite - Blue
Ohio Wolfpack

14U
Ohio Ice - White
Ohio Wolfpack - Black
Indy Shock waves
Lasers - Purple
Ice - Poole
Pittsburgh Spirit
Stingrays


After 5 years not to much seems different.....Shouldn't these teams be Gold Division Teams by now?

 

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I always chuckle when I read people who post that the talent is watered down. To me there are different types of coaches. The best type try to learn as much about the game and teach the best most efficient fundamental techniques. They are more or less students of the game. They will also research not only teaching fundamentals but also how to become better teachers for the benefit of the players. They can develop talent. If you belong to an organization that only wants the best players who does that benefit? As fate had it I was fortunate enough to be given a chance to coach for a travel organization that provided me an opportunity to develop not only myself but girls who would have never been given a chance to play softball at higher levels. I have seen the results of being able to develop girls who did not make teams of other organizations that only take the best players. If you believe that talent is watered down, this part of the country will never grow the sport. The more volume of girls wanting to play the more likelyhood of developing talented players and teams.

 

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Um, Parma, unless something has changed radically with ASA and I missed it, the "Gold" designation only exists for 18U teams. Younger teams could probably opt to play up in the Gold division, but there isn't a 16U, 14U, 12U "Gold" classification.

 

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California has 4.65 players/teams for every 1 Ohio player/team


.

Population Cali. vs Ohio

36,458,000 vs 11,478,000


Maybe Cali is watered down as well;&

 

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75% of ASA teams registered are Recreation League teams, that do not compete in Travel. Same for Ohio, Indiana, or California. So all those number are not accurate.

 

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Population Cali. vs Ohio

36,458,000 vs 11,478,000


Maybe Cali is watered down as well;&

Semperfi so California only has 3.18 people for every 1 person Ohio has, Good to know.

75% of ASA teams registered are Recreation League teams, that do not compete in Travel. Same for Ohio, Indiana, or California. So all those number are not accurate.

Akadema if the 75% thing is the same for Ohio as it is in California then it is an accurate figure.

 

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way too much math for me..

 

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sure sheer numbers are a big reason,, why do you think in ohio high schools, div 1 teams are generally better than div 4 teams?,,,/more kids to pick from, maybe located nearer better facilities, training etc.

 

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4.65 and 3.18 are interesting numbers.

The larger ppulation means a lot in simple raw numbers to choose from. With population density, it could also make sense that it is easy for the very best talented players to migrate to a few teams and create super elite teams, that have their own rivalries, competitions, and ethics. They simply "push" each other higher at that point. The cream rises.

Climate is still important. You can play year round, but a hidden "relative" problem in Ohio is that we are programmed to look forward to putting down the bat and glove and get on the volleyball or basketbal court in winter. Heck, even in spring, it is a LOT easier to play sokker than softball.

It's not just that there is more "dirt time" available in Cali, but also that we have differeing regional mentalities about goals, and how we spend our time.

4.65 players in Cali versus 3.18 in Ohio suppors that notion. The softball population segment within the overall general population in Cali is higher than in Ohio.

This tells me that not only are there MORE raw numbers, but also higher "interest" in the sport. We already KNEW this, but the numbers support that also.

Ohio does well with smaller overall numbers, and a seasonality disadvantage relative to Cali.

Wonder what the basketball (girls) & wrestling (boys) ratios look like?? I bet Cali's massive population advantage fails miserably in producing champion athletes in those sports, relative to Ohio (ratio's only). Why?? ... well, who wants to be on a wrestling mat in January collecting Staph when you can be surfing and partying at the beach with hot babes, .... or playing baseball ...

 

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I said this in a previous thread however in my mind it is worth repeating:

At the Akedemia 50 team showcase we did an on field clinic and someone ask Crystl what she had done to become so good. She explained she practiced with the team once a week from 9 to 5 PM on a Sunday and that it was up to her to work on what ever the coach thought she needed to do during her own during the week to make the necessary improvements before the next practice.

There was a large group of girls there and Crystl ask the question; how many of you practiced off the tee 6 times this week? No one! 5 times, 4 times, 3 times, 2 times and finally one girl raised her hand. CB ask was it at a practice or on your own? One and one was the answer. How many practiced at least once? Seven girls raised their hand and all seven had did it at practice so she said it did not count unless it was on your own!

CB then made the statement to the parents, why would you spend 4 to 6 thousand dollars a summer for travel ball when your kids will not even practice on their own? Save that money for college in stead of wasting it on summer ball! Why buy her a $300 to $400 dollar bat if she does not know how to use it or want to learn how? You could get the same results if it was a Walmart Special.

She pointed out you knew you were coming to a show case with college coaches in attendance and you did not even prepare by practicing this week in preparation for this event? She ask the parents you have spent two days paying for the hotels, plus food and gas and they did not even practice their skills! Save your money for college if they do not want to even practice in my opinion. Then she made one final comment and said if I was having problem with math, would I be smarter if I just put the book under my pillow and sleep on it all night? Then by morning I should be smarter? If you think that will happen, start sleeping with your bats and gloves under your pillow.

One parent later on commented to me that was a hard shot however it made sense, she (his daughter) has to want it and I can force her to do it.

All the math in the world does not compare to does she want it! The next thing are her coaches using, teaching, current fundamental techniques used at the next level? Just because it is a college camp does not mean what they use is correct. There are people I work with that go to a lot of the local college camps for exposure reasons so the daughter can get a glimpse of the campus and coaches and what they teach. Lets just say there is a lot of variation to what and how they teach it.

Bill Hillhouse talked about it at the Hawks Clinic and ruffled some feathers by saying if you are going to a pitching coach who teaches you to finish upward verses finishing across your body you are an accident waiting to happen and it is not the proper bio mechanics and just like throwing over hand, your arm should come across your body when you finish. When I asked several coaches to get balanced at the clinic and we pushed on them to see if they were balanced and they were not, then you know the basic skills of throwing and hitting are not being taught either in my opinion. Howard K and I talked later at dinner and then by email and I suggested he teach them how to balance and then teach them how to throw before he teaches them advanced techniques. He said he is changing his approach after watching how we taught balance. This is why you hear people say she hits or throws like a girl...no balance, no flex in the front leg, so there is no power in the lower half of the body, no connection of the lower body to the upper body and no core strength...why is there 31% more knee injuries in girls softball verses 3% knee related injuries in boys baseball? For the most part, we as male coaches do not understand how they balance, how to teach them to shift their weight or land properly and it starts with throwing....

Happy Holidays Howard

 

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If everything else were equal, the only thing the sheer numbers would tell us is that California should have 4.65 (or whatever it is) girls on a college roster to every 1 for Ohio and that those numbers should be proportionate to each level of college. And that Ohio should have 1 team at Gold Nationals (or 16-U, 14-U, etc., A Nationals) for every California team. Whether it's number of college players or teams at Nationals or whatever else, I don't think we need to do a study to find that Ohio doesn't match up as it should based on number of players, but neither does about any other state when compared to California.

I think you start with the weather and that advantage, and then look at the increased interest because of the climate. Similarly, Canada puts out hockey players. Are they born that way, of course not. Because of the climate, a tradition of hockey started. In turn, that attracts more interest, which attracts more dedication, better coaching, the best athletes, etc. It kind of snowballs.

The one thing I notice watching the teams out west is that, generally, the girls are better athletes. There is much more speed than you see here in Ohio and the defensive plays are often a lot more athletic. And that makes sense because they are getting a higher percentage of their good athletes because of the popularity of the sport out there.

 

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I always chuckle when I read people who post that the talent is watered down. To me there are different types of coaches. The best type try to learn as much about the game and teach the best most efficient fundamental techniques. They are more or less students of the game. They will also research not only teaching fundamentals but also how to become better teachers for the benefit of the players. They can develop talent. If you belong to an organization that only wants the best players who does that benefit? As fate had it I was fortunate enough to be given a chance to coach for a travel organization that provided me an opportunity to develop not only myself but girls who would have never been given a chance to play softball at higher levels. I have seen the results of being able to develop girls who did not make teams of other organizations that only take the best players. If you believe that talent is watered down, this part of the country will never grow the sport. The more volume of girls wanting to play the more likelyhood of developing talented players and teams.

Excellent post!! There are some "Coaches" here that think "Mediocre" players should stay at home.

 

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Does anyone know whether OHSAA and CHSAA have similiar views regarding travel team contact, high school coach/player contact, etc?

 

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Excellent post!! There are some "Coaches" here that think "Mediocre" players should stay at home.

We are working with players who did not make the "A" team for various reasons, some have learning dis abilities (LD), are not as good athletically, have only been playing since they were 11 years old, single families with either a mother or father out of the picture and in some cases grand parents or an aunt or uncle. Some of our LD are making the high school teams as freshmen now, some are at D2, D3 and NAIA however they took it to the next level and did not play on "A" level teams.

The fundamentals such as balance, are assumed and not taught by your "A" level coaches or even the Gold Coaches and we know them and are working with them also to teach these skills.

CGS and JoeA1010 and several of their coaches were here a couple weeks ago and brought two girls we have never worked with each with varying skill levels and athleticism. We took them through the fundementals of throwing, glove positions, basic fielding, then hitting. It took one of the girls a little longer to GET IT! They play on the same team and both improved and this was done in less than 8 hours and 10 coaches walked away with possibly a better plan on HOW to teach two atheletes with different skill levels the same thing, basic skills and fundementals that in my opinion they did not know. Both hit off the tee blind folded and walked away feeling better about them self in my opinion.

Joe has moved up from high school and travel ball to the college ranks and is doing his own recruiting now and and in two years we will see what he can do. However I worked with his team in Sept. and the difference in the kids he has brought in verses what he was left with is huge! Yes even at his level kids have got there that did not know how to throw and some are from California!

Just my thoughts....everyone can find a team to play on and then when you get better play up to your potential!

Howard

 

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There are some "Coaches" here that think "Mediocre" players should stay at home.

This has to be one of the most shame full thoughtless things to ever be said or thought. And it is a shame.

To those coaches,

If Mediocre Players stayed home, then teams would run out of players and the sport would die. How many 8y.o. or 9y.o. have you seen when they came to the tryout that have never played fastpitch before were Instant STUDS.

This is how the Mediocre player turns out to be a stud player, by spending the time in the lower division of play for 2 years, they learn the game and develope the skills needed to be that stud player you so much desire. Maybe its when they hit 12u or 14u it might not even be untill they hit 16u.

 

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In Arizona, the H.S. kids are not allowed to play both travel and H.S starting Jan. 31st and ending after the tournament in May. No idea on Cali though, but I would think it's the same.