Top fastpitch softball states - where would Ohio rank?

[coachjwb]

So I am guessing many people would say that California is the top state in the country for fastpitch softball. Lots of the top travel organizations, good college programs, the weather in at least the southern part of the state to play all year long, more than their share of the top tourneys in the country, etc. So where would Ohio rank?

So yeah, we have crappy weather this time of year ... but it seems like we've had a huge growth in indoor facilities, and there's seemingly a lot of indoor leagues. We also don't have many highly ranked college programs in any division ... but that's arguably also at least partially due to the weather, and there are seemingly an increasing number of Ohio players at good D1 programs across the country. In travel ball, the Lasers, Outlaws, Doom, Bandits (with a lot of Ohio players) and others have had some great finishes and even wins at some of the top national PGF, ASA and elite showcase tourneys. We have arguably one of the top most popular Forums (thanks, Ricky!), and we even had a radio show. We have some excellent regional tourneys that teams come to from multiple states like Stingrays, Fire in the Sky, etc. We have one of only a half dozen pro teams. We have an outstanding organization like Stay in Softball that's even getting some national press. High school softball is very popular and we many schools with JV and freshman programs. We have hundreds and hundreds of travel programs.

So how far down would we rank after California? After the west coast and SEC states, is Ohio perhaps the top? Of course it's all very subjective, but I thought it would be good to debate. My opinion is probably pretty clear ... I think we're extremely fortunate, and we have a lot of organizations and coaches who deserve a lot of the credit for making Ohio one of the top fastpitch states in the country!

 

[manitoudan]

Good question, top 5 for sure . State is very very deep with D1 talent , If Ohio got credit for all for those Bandit kids Ohio would be even more popular . Ca and texas are great , Ga-Florida is really good . But Ohio is right there . I don't think Ariz is deeper , or Tenn . Good topic

 

[Louuuuu]

Good topic, yes. But going on Ohio Fastpitch Connection to ask how Ohio ranks is like going to the Horseshoe and asking "What do you think of the Michigan Wolverines football program?" It's hard to get an unbiased answer.

('Though I think ManitouDan is on the right track.)

 

[Run26]

Ohio, like most states, can be extremely top heavy when you speak about D1 recruits and what organization they play for. This state has been increasingly moving forward due to the Lasers, Outlaws, Stingrays but there can be a large drop in national success when you factor in the rest of the community. I do agree that Doom is making some noise and has for a long time but they still struggle to maintain the Elite status these other 3 have earned.
When you speak of the CA, GA, FL, TX, TN, OK you have multiple organizations that can tangle with anyone in the country. These are also mostly warm weather states and have an advantage to being able to field games all year long. There is also a population impact you have to consider in some of these vast states. You can't deny that a larger populous enables most participation.
I'd put Ohio's top 5 teams up against just about any of these states but let's not expand it much larger. It probably wouldn't be a successful outing for us (yet).

 

[coachjwb]

I think some would be surprised if we knew what % of those visiting and being active in this Forum are actually from Ohio ... my guess is maybe 60-70% ... though it probably goes up to 80-90% if you include neighboring states. I definitely would love to hear from others from outside of Ohio to give us a more non-biased view, but good point Louuuu.

Let's not limit the discussion though to just the top fastpitch travel organizations, though that certainly is a major factor. I am thinking overall interest and participation in the sport as well ...

 

[smitty88]

I am not from Ohio. Just moved here about a year ago. Honestly, as far as traveling out of state to play, nothing in Ohio really lured us here. Lasers would have been the teams that came to mind when thinking of Ohio teams. From what I have seen, there is a ton of great talent in Ohio, but I think Ohio may be further down that list than you think. Top 10 for sure.

 

[manitoudan]

I'd accept being called top ten . Other than the obvious couple at the top its hard to judge , one person can move the needle ( think Alvelo or Lilly ) plus teams change from year to year . And with ASA and PGF both drawing top talent there is much less chance that year after year the best teams play against each other in a national tourney with 100 plus of the nations best teams . So its hard to say you rank exactly 4th VS 8th . But Ohio is dang good with a ton of depth . Best thrower I saw all summer/fall ( a steal - going to the MAC ) doesnt play for a top level organization in Ohio , yes she plays in Ohio One example among 100's .

 

[TheSoftballZone]

I started another thread similar to this thread. But asking people to pick the top 25 states in girls fast pitch softball.

Already did my top 25.

 

[CARDS]

Ohio has come a long way over the past 10 years but I would not put Ohio in the top 5 in overall national softball numbers. Top 10 maybe...(Mainly from the finishes at various nationals over the past three years).

In Ohio the sport is growing in numbers on the travel ball side but I see many recreational parks struggling to field teams (at least in SWO).

Ohio has learned to provide venues that are able to provide playing fields and facilities for girls fastpitch. Amazing how many TDs now know what temp fencing is...Some of the best playing environments are found at high schools and not most tournament venues.

I remember back in the early to mid 2000s most tournaments and even some state tournaments were played on mens slow pitch or boys baseball fields. Most tournaments had poor or inadequate restroom facilities. Umpiring was hit and miss, and it seemed like most tournaments struggled with pitching and base distances...

The amount of ladies 10U through 18U available in the state are growing but as far as teams that play a true national schedule I think you would see 15 or less in each age group. How many ladies adult (18 and over) leagues/tournaments or teams does Ohio field? Ohio does have several appearances at the LL World Series...

On the High School level Ohio has some programs that can compete with any HS program in the country. Ohio does do well at spring break events in FL, TN, SC,and KY...

Ohio has a wide range of college programs with opportunities for Ohio ladies. There are several schools at various levels that have had some success on a regular basis, but how many DI or even DII programs regularly compete or get conference titles and play for national championships? Does anyone know of a national championship at the college level in the past 10 years in Ohio?

Having the opportunity to play some of the top programs from NJ, ILL, TN, GA, TX, AL, IN, KY, MI, OH, SC,NC, FL,MN, KS,MO, LA etc. over the years I can guarantee you these states would have an opinion on why their state would be stronger than Ohio...

Ohio is strong and is doing a lot of good things but if looking at "overall softball success" Ohio is still behind, CA, GA, TN,TX,FL, AL,OK maybe....even...ILL or MI Ouch...






http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/softball/d1/nfca

 

[manitoudan]

No way Mich , Il or Ky is even close to Ohio in terms of depth of talent . I'm not buying all you are selling Cards . Just mentioning NJ, SC , Mo, Mn and Ky in this conversation weakens your position IMO. They can have an opinion all they want , they don't stack up.

 

[FastBat]

Do you see many Ohio players listed on D1 rosters? I don't really know much about college softball right now. But, if there are a lot of Ohio girls on those rosters, then I would consider Ohio to be a very competitive softball state.

 

[CARDS]

No way Mich , Il or Ky is even close to Ohio in terms of depth of talent . I'm not buying all you are selling Cards . Just mentioning NJ, SC , Mo, Mn and Ky in this conversation weakens your position IMO. They can have an opinion all they want , they don't stack up.[/QUOTE

Indiana has as strong as players as Ohio with some very good teams that play good ball from several areas of the state and they have several that play a national schedule like Ohio.

I give IN,MI the nod over Ohio because of their strong college programs. The states also host major sanctioning body national events and have decent qualifying tournaments for a variety of sanctioning bodies. Over the years both have done a better job than Ohio in making sure teams played on "fastpitch fields" regardless of the size of the event. They both do fall a little short as far as the quantity college showcase style events.
ILL...Has some very good teams and organizations that travel west of the Mississippi. The events we played in TN and GA during the 2010/2011 seasons we faced the Southern Force from the southern part of ILL...This organization could compete with anyone. As far as major tournaments ILL tops Ohio from the events that we played in. The team draw was also from a larger segment of top clubs around the USA.

The teams we faced from SC were all good as well. The Carolina Angels were the real deal back in 2011/2012. SC again has stronger college programs than Ohio and the state also hose some large national events.
Look at the rosters of the Top 25 D1 programs and you will see more SC ladies than Ohio ladies. Look at the PGF roster and they also have quite a few on these NPF teams.
http://profastpitch.com/teams/team_rosters/



Ohio does get ladies to college at all levels and send a good amount to small D1 local programs BUT Bigger schools like OSU has less than 50% of the roster made up of ladies from Ohio. Look at the rosters of the top 25 D1 programs (that some would consider the top of the mountain of the sport) Ohio will not make the top 5 may not even make top 10 of states providing players to that level of college play...

Also look at the NPF rosters and the areas the ladies come from that are playing at the professional level...Again Ohio does not have any larger presence of players than Ky, MI, IN even on the Racers roster...

 

[manitoudan]

I was not counting college programs in my evaluation . As far as the OSU % of ladies from Ohio that falls directly on the previous coaching staff -- they didnt go after many a great player that went elsewhere . I dont think judging the depth and overall talent of a state can be judged by the Racers roster. Just who is Michigan pumping out that compares to Ohio ? Ohio fills the roster of several MAC schools , far outnumbering Mi players. . I think Ohio is far deeper than Mi , .

 

[Fairman]

How do account for the different populations of the various states when ranking the best states for softball? California has 3 times the population as Ohio and 10 times the population of Kentucky. You would think the rosters would reflect this.

Interesting, California has 266 colleges (4 year) or a 1 college/145,000 people. Ohio has 127 colleges or 1 college per 91,000 people. The Ohio kids have a more opportunities to play in college than the California kids. The Ohio kids have almost twice the opportunity** to play in college then their California friends.

Please don’t just look at D-1 programs but all 4-year colleges as opportunities for our kids to excel. Ohio should have more kids playing collegiate softball by percentage than California showing that the talent is in-depth locally. California should have twice the players playing but they will be forced to look beyond their borders.

I suspect that you need to define the term 'best' and how we determine it before we start listing states.



**(Assume 5 kids recruited at each college/state population= .0056% fir Ohio and .0034% for California)

 

[spartansd]

No way Mich , Il or Ky is even close to Ohio in terms of depth of talent . I'm not buying all you are selling Cards . Just mentioning NJ, SC , Mo, Mn and Ky in this conversation weakens your position IMO. They can have an opinion all they want , they don't stack up.

I agree except for Ill. The Chicago area is easily the deepest and best softball area in the Midwest and it is not even close.

Ohio is much stronger than Michigan by tons and I am from Michigan. I am would rank Indiana as not too shabbly either. Crown Pointe HS was ranked in the top 10 HS team in the USA last year I believe.

And you can not compare Bandits teams and teams from Cali or Arizona and such. Because most Bandits teams have players from multiple States. I know the Demarini 16U Bandits teams has players from Ohio, MI, Ill, WV and that is not even looking at roster. While a team from Cali will often be all players from Cali....LOL.

I have played a ton in Indiana, Chicago area, and Ohio. I think the deepest area for talent is Chicago area, the best pitching is in Indiana, and the best hitters are from Ohio. I have found that the umps in Ohio tend to make you bring it over the plate more while in Indiana and Chicago areas the zone is a bit wider. So the pitching comment may be due to the zone you see in Ohio making it tougher on the pitchers.

Ohio is deepest if you look at the whole State compared to the other Midwest States. It is just the Chicago area is so densely populated it has a ton of players and teams within an hour of each other.


I have always said that the Midwest States top 20 players are as good as any States top 20 players. It is just the depth of where you see it fall off. And the one area that the Midwest is typically not great at is developing high D1 pitchers. This is a tough discussion because to be fair there are typically only a handful in College each year that really are heads and shoulders better than the rest of the country. So the fact that not many come out of the Midwest is true because not many come out of the whole USA.

I would struggle to put any of the Midwest States in the top 10 in the country. But if you count them down it is probably very very close to being in the top 10.

As I recall there are some stats that actually show where the D1 softball players are coming from.
.

 

[coachjwb]

Fairman ... I agree we shouldn't limit assessment based on # of D1 Players, let alone just the Power 5 conferences. To answer your one question though, my post earlier did take into consideration the size of the states, looking at the # of Power 5 players per millions of people in each state, and actually Ohio came out much lower on this basis.

 

[CARDS]

I was not counting college programs in my evaluation . As far as the OSU % of ladies from Ohio that falls directly on the previous coaching staff -- they didnt go after many a great player that went elsewhere . I dont think judging the depth and overall talent of a state can be judged by the Racers roster. Just who is Michigan pumping out that compares to Ohio ? Ohio fills the roster of several MAC schools , far outnumbering Mi players. . I think Ohio is far deeper than Mi , .

Manitoudan, I looked at the thread as a question about top fastpitch softball as a whole in each state not just teams and talent. IMO, that would include a wide range of factors that will distinguish the areas that are strong, balanced or needs improvement.

I do agree Ohio has a lot of talent with some very good travel organizations and more than MI. My assessment was based off a variety of factors in the state including: number of teams and quality of teams per age group, talent/depth, what events these teams play, top tier tournaments hosted by the state, can the hosted event bring in top organizations or top college program coaches for showcases, playing facilities, state recreational programs, state HS programs. where are the ladies signing/playing,what the colleges within the state does and from past experiences (although it may be a few years old).
Ohio is one of only a few states that supports a pro softball organization so we have people willing to support softball so that gives Ohio another check mark.

 

[manitoudan]

And yes to Spartans dad -- Illinois is really good, I glossed over the fact that the Chicago area produces tons of great talent , every time I see the Nationals I'm amazed how good that area is and how many on their roster are unsigned.

 

[Fairman]

If you limit your definition to players in the power 5 conferences then we will fall short. The opportunities at elite D-1 programs are roughly equivalent across the country and California's-38 million will produce more super-stars than Ohio's-11 million

If you expand your definition to total girls playing at the collegiate level then Ohio does very well. We will have a third less truly elite players than California based just on population alone but I'd bet that we have almost the same number of kids playing collegiate ball due to more opportunities at all levels of college.

So who's better?
I'd make a case the true measure of the strength of softball in a state is based on the percentage of high school athletes that go onto play college ball at all levels.