Trophy Hunting

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Why is it that so many coaches of so called elite teams are more concerned with playing weak schedules and winning trophies that mean nothing instead of challenging the team. Develop the girls and push them to be the best they can be.

 

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That's what I'm talking about Warren!!! Smashing teams and collecting trophies is not fun for anyone. Some people forget that it is the GIRLS playing the game...not them. Although it makes them look really cool to win all the Bugtussel Classic tournaments, they aren't doing their players any favors.

I'd rather place 4th or 5th in Laser Nation or Dayton Metro than win 10 Bugtussel Classics in 1 summer. But I guess it all depends on what you are there for...developing your players or making your dd and you look like stars.

 

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That's what I'm talking about Warren!!! Smashing teams and collecting trophies is not fun for anyone. Some people forget that it is the GIRLS playing the game...not them. Although it makes them look really cool to win all the Bugtussel Classic tournaments, they aren't doing their players any favors.

I'd rather place 4th or 5th in Laser Nation or Dayton Metro than win 10 Bugtussel Classics in 1 summer. But I guess it all depends on what you are there for...developing your players or making your dd and you look like stars.

Agree from 14U-18U you should be looking at a ASA/USA schedule for the bulk of your summer to push them, but also make sure you keep developing them. Don't just watch them play coach.

 

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From what I have seen at 16/18U, the best teams are playing ASA. 14U isn't as important because the kids are mostly still in middle school. Occasionally, there may be times when teams play in smaller tourneys because they may be helping support another organization for fundraising.

 

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We see the same thing every year.
During pre-season the ELITE teams advertise themselves as COLLEGE SHOWCASE
And then we see them at EVERY local tournament that we go to! LOL

 

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So, I'm crossing the Bugtussel Classic off my list, then...

 

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We didn't win a tournament last year until the ASA Easterns win. We knew putting together our schedule that for a younger 16U team it was going to be a grinder every weekend. With one exception, they were all ASA sanctioned and either college showcases or USA/ASA qualifiers. To their credit the players more than hung in there. Although we didn't bring home any regular season trophies, the season record before the run at ASA Easterns was something like 35-18-1. We played nearly all the Ohio 16U big dogs but win or lose (and there were some really encouraging wins), the young ladies made some stellar plays and apparently learned from their not so stellar ones. If you are playing down in terms of competition, these opportunities for increased confidence and/or growth are not nearly so frequent.

Sure it would have been nice to win some of those regular season tournaments, but even with hindsight I wouldn't change our schedule from last year. I wish we could repeat all the same events this year, but having the ASA/USA Nationals bid in hand has meant that we will have to skip ASA States, the Region 9 closed qualifiers, and Dayton Metro (fortunately, the ASA Code directly allows us to compete in the open National Qualifier that will be held again this year in Shreve, so the rule at the Ohio state level about forfeiting the USA/ASA bid does not apply).

I have no doubt that the strength of our schedule last year resulted in our acceptances this year to (in order of dates) Laser Nation, Best of the Best, Stingrays, and GAPSS. And I believe that even without the ASA Easterns win, the strength of our schedule last year coupled with a winning regular season would have gotten us in to these tournaments this year.

Once you hit 16U's (and arguably sooner), the goal should be to hold your own against the top quality teams, thereby allowing your players to attract some attention from college coaches. Winning trophies in fields that include those quality teams enhances your players' college opportunities, but winning trophies in middling of the road tournaments does not, imho, get your players nearly the college attention as doing less well up against the big dogs.

 

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We didn't win a tournament last year until the ASA Easterns win. We knew putting together our schedule that for a younger 16U team it was going to be a grinder every weekend. With one exception, they were all ASA sanctioned and either college showcases or USA/ASA qualifiers. To their credit the players more than hung in there. Although we didn't bring home any regular season trophies, the season record before the run at ASA Easterns was something like 35-18-1. We played nearly all the Ohio 16U big dogs but win or lose (and there were some really encouraging wins), the young ladies made some stellar plays and apparently learned from their not so stellar ones. If you are playing down in terms of competition, these opportunities for increased confidence and/or growth are not nearly so frequent.

Sure it would have been nice to win some of those regular season tournaments, but even with hindsight I wouldn't change our schedule from last year. I wish we could repeat all the same events this year, but having the ASA/USA Nationals bid in hand has meant that we will have to skip ASA States, the Region 9 closed qualifiers, and Dayton Metro (fortunately, the ASA Code directly allows us to compete in the open National Qualifier that will be held again this year in Shreve, so the rule at the Ohio state level about forfeiting the USA/ASA bid does not apply).

I have no doubt that the strength of our schedule last year resulted in our acceptances this year to (in order of dates) Laser Nation, Best of the Best, Stingrays, and GAPSS. And I believe that even without the ASA Easterns win, the strength of our schedule last year coupled with a winning regular season would have gotten us in to these tournaments this year.

Once you hit 16U's (and arguably sooner), the goal should be to hold your own against the top quality teams, thereby allowing your players to attract some attention from college coaches. Winning trophies in fields that include those quality teams enhances your players' college opportunities, but winning trophies in middling of the road tournaments does not, imho, get your players nearly the college attention as doing less well up against the big dogs.

I would rather do exactly what you just said. And so far the results have been outstanding. We play the same type schedule, mostly ASA/USA or college exposure events.

You keep on doing what you are doing and the payment of watching 90% of that team go on to play at the next level will more than offset any lack of tournament trophy's.

Its about the long haul, and trying to be the vehicle the kids need to get to college. Im glad to see there is another with the same mind set.

Tim

 

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We didn't win a tournament last year until the ASA Easterns win. We knew putting together our schedule that for a younger 16U team it was going to be a grinder every weekend. With one exception, they were all ASA sanctioned and either college showcases or USA/ASA qualifiers. To their credit the players more than hung in there. Although we didn't bring home any regular season trophies, the season record before the run at ASA Easterns was something like 35-18-1. We played nearly all the Ohio 16U big dogs but win or lose (and there were some really encouraging wins), the young ladies made some stellar plays and apparently learned from their not so stellar ones. If you are playing down in terms of competition, these opportunities for increased confidence and/or growth are not nearly so frequent.

Sure it would have been nice to win some of those regular season tournaments, but even with hindsight I wouldn't change our schedule from last year. I wish we could repeat all the same events this year, but having the ASA/USA Nationals bid in hand has meant that we will have to skip ASA States, the Region 9 closed qualifiers, and Dayton Metro (fortunately, the ASA Code directly allows us to compete in the open National Qualifier that will be held again this year in Shreve, so the rule at the Ohio state level about forfeiting the USA/ASA bid does not apply).

I have no doubt that the strength of our schedule last year resulted in our acceptances this year to (in order of dates) Laser Nation, Best of the Best, Stingrays, and GAPSS. And I believe that even without the ASA Easterns win, the strength of our schedule last year coupled with a winning regular season would have gotten us in to these tournaments this year.

we can almost say ditto, nice post!. Even our record was similar. We went into Nationals with a record of appoximately 42-18-1 or so. In Lasers and GAPSS tournies we faced great challenges which set the table for our season. Went 3-3 at Lasers and GAPSS was 5th. Played choppy and got a choppy finish and was OK with it because we faced great teams and knew we were truly leaving some on the table. Won some early yet smaller tournaments but who cares. The goal was set, the plan was laid out, and the challenges are what make the girls better and the coaching step up. Challenges really do make the teams better. It's not a cliche statement. Injuries really ate us up early on as well. Hoping for healthy players all year in 2012!

 

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Thank You. Thank You. Thank you. This posting made my week. So unbelievably tired of coaches playing weaker local tournaments to feel better about themselves. I agree 100% with this, especially with the fact that it's better to finish in 4th or 5th at an elite tourney than win a weak tourney.

 

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good luck telling parents that losing or placing poorly is ok when they are new to travel ball. Just a fun discussion with the un-informed.

 

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good luck telling parents that losing or placing poorl is ok when they are new to travel ball. Just a fun discussion with the un-informed.

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Is that why some strong teams play weaker sactioning bodies to make the un-informed parents feel good.

 

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Agree with you 100%, Warren. All I will say is that it's just not the coaches ... there are seemingly too many girls and parents out there who don't really seem to get this, and when you don't win anything, they aren't happy and seem to blame the coaches! Interesting to hear that Carol's team didn't win before nationals ... I saw them play there and they were very good! They definitely lived with the philosophy of getting in the best tournaments they could and, in my mind, that's the sign of an elite travel team/organization.

 

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ok, but to play the other side of the discussion. What is so wrong with playing to win? What if you got lucky and acquired 10 really good athletes that really don't care to travel to Texas for an ASA championship that you might only play three or four games.

their parents tell you that they only want to play locally for the LOVE of the game, They want a summer of fun. And the only way they are playing on your team is if you schedule accordingly.

And since you only have ten or eleven players, it not like you are not emptying your bench and letting off the gas.

Another thought. Is it the caoches and parents pushing these girls into the high level tournaments? do the players all want it to be so intense all the time? It kind of takes the fun out of the game for some. Maybe that is why burnout in some occur?

 

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I have a theory after watching my DD's travel career. 1st she played on a travel team that played mostly local tournaments. They were well coached and they could play with the best teams for 1 game when we would go out of town for our once a year trip. But they could not sustain that level for the entire tournament. She then played for the Lasers and seeing the best teams every weekend allowed her to grow as a competitor. She then moved on to play for the SGS Magic- White. Coach Dave Day is a play anybody at anytime kind of coach, his team was full of kids that played tough schedules growing up and they could compete.

Taking my lessons learned from my oldest DD or as we sometimes call her our trial and error kid. My 10u team is playing as tough of a schedule as I can make without being out of town every weekend. My hopes are that at some point they will only know way to play, hard inning in inning out. I think if you have talent on your team your mind set should be to be our best we have to play the best.

I've told my parents it will be a struggle I also told them I have no idea what tournaments my DD's team won or what their record was from about 10-14u. I remember big tournaments like the Colorado tournaments, Stingray's or Elgin sparks. But the local tournaments are just a blip I remember being there but that's about it.

 

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woolfman:

Nothing wrong with the approach you describe as long as the young ladies aren't looking to develop to their best level of play and/or aren't looking to play in college. The key is communication. IMHO, the parents shouldn't be dictating the level of play to the coaches. Most travel ball coaches who aspire to the toughest tournaments make that clear at try-outs and in other settings. If the young lady wants to play more than rec ball but still views the game as for fun, for winning, and not something that should push her hard, there are plenty of travel teams out there to fit that bill. I suspect, however, that more families are disappointed by travel ball coaches who promise the top flight competition and then don't follow through than by travel ball coaches who do what they say they are going to do.

BTW, I also believe that burnout can frequently be caused by the coaches' reactions to losses. I have come to appreciate that when we lose to a really good team, it does no good to read our team the riot act. Stress how the game was a quality game, how certain things were done really well, and how if certain other things were corrected the game result might have been different. Do it calmly. And when there is one of those frustrating games where the wheels come off, just tell them to flush the game (they probably won't, which is in some respects good, but they need to know that you aren't going to obsess on the game). The hardest scenario for me as a coach is when the players don't do things that you ask them to do that are totally within their control, like help with momentum by giving vocal support while in the field and on the bench. Or refraining from publicly sulking when things don't go right. But even in those situations, when I have lost my temper it usually doesn't do the team much good. Being very very direct but still calm is probably the much better approach. I try to take lessons from our head coach on that score.

 

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I guess I don't know who the "elite" teams are that are trophy hunting. All the good "A" teams that I know are playing in USA/ASA States, GAPSS, Best of the Best, Stingrays, Loudonville, Laser Nation, ASA/USA Natioanl Qualifiers, etc. Are these teams local to you and they just call themselves "elite" to trick a couple of good players into joining the team?

 

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There are many variables in tournament selection. Our goal as a first year 12u is to compete with every team we face. We did that in the fall. We did not receive invites for Stingrays or GAPSS but we tried and it is a goal for next year. Two of our local tourneys are ones that we run. But we have entered the Dayton Metro and CCAC Summer Slam in Indiana where we will compete against some of Ohio and Indianas best teams. I would not fault any top team for joining some local non showcase tourneys. If they did not, an expense we have for our daughters would be much greater. This is not trophy hunting, this is finances and reality. Or maybe the "elite" teams take extra time off in the summer because there is no "elite" tourney to enter that is a financially viable option for their players and their families.

 

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THREAD HIJACK​

DD's team is NOT an elite team, and they dont care about trophies.

Miami Valley Xpress 16U Curtis needs one more player.

2012 schedule
Dayton Metro, USA/ASA qualifier
Music City Hits Nashville Tn. USA/ASA qualifier
ASA States Findlay Oh. USA/ASA qualifier
Strongsville Oh. USA/ASA qualifier
Stingrays showcase Colombus Oh.
Dreams all American Showcase Indianapolis Ind.
Orland Sparks Showcase Chicago ILL.
16U usa/asa nationals Montgomery Al. (berth required)

 

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Like ^^