Trophy Hunting

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THREAD HIJACK​

DD's team is NOT an elite team, and they dont care about trophies.

Miami Valley Xpress 16U Curtis needs one more player.

2012 schedule
Dayton Metro, USA/ASA qualifier
Music City Hits Nashville Tn. USA/ASA qualifier
ASA States Findlay Oh. USA/ASA qualifier
Strongsville Oh. USA/ASA qualifier
Stingrays showcase Colombus Oh.
Dreams all American Showcase Indianapolis Ind.
Orland Sparks Showcase Chicago ILL.
16U usa/asa nationals Montgomery Al. (berth required)

Nice schedule

 

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miami valley is an elite team

 

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Uber Jones said a mouthful and I can't agree more.

The one thing mentioned by somebody else is the talk with the uninformed parents/families while trying to explain why a 5th place at 1 tourney may be as successful as a win at Cowpoke Park. The uninformed are seeing a new world for the first time. We need to guide them calmly down this path till they finally get it.

Fastpitch softball has finally evolved to offer something for everyone. To the weekend warriors that simply want to see who is the top dog in the neighborhood to the team that wants to go toe to toe with the best in our country------or beyond. No tournament is any less important than the other as they all serve a purpose. That purpose is to offer weekend competition and fun for women. Let's not criticize any tournament. It's simply up to the organizations to live up to their hype by scheduling their teams in tourneys that meet the family expectations.

Personally, I like for more prestigious teams to take a weekend to compete in Cowpoke Park with me. We can't afford to travel so having a shot to play an elite team helps keep us in perspective and give us a chance to measure our worth.

Thank you.

 

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Scheduling is tough, and until you've done it (most of you here have) then the challenge is hard to appreciate.

I just hope that the "top" teams, especially the ones from programs who have built their reputations over the years, try not to look down on the ones who end up playing in "cowpoke" at time. The top tournaments here remind me just a bit of the BCS. By and large, they get it right, with few exceptions the VERY top teams get in. The BCS is pretty reliable at getting the top 3-4 teams, but does it always get every one of the top 8? Every top softball tournament, you can look down through the field and realize a handful or more of deserving teams are NOT there for whatever reason. They may have chosen, for budget reasons, to play elsewhere. They may have tried to get in, but their reputation does NOT precede them. Not throwing stones at anyone; it's an imperfect system. But it is complicated; some very good teams just may not have the ability or opportunity to "play the best of the best" week-in and week-out.

 

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Personally, I like for more prestigious teams to take a weekend to compete in Cowpoke Park with me. We can't afford to travel so having a shot to play an elite team helps keep us in perspective and give us a chance to measure our worth.

Thank you.

Last year after my DD's 18u team won a ASA/USA qualifer we found out we couldn't play at States which was 2 weekends later. After some talk decided to pick out a tournament and play just to play. I believe the few tournament directors that had openings in their tournament that we called wouldn't let us in. Wonder why?..

 

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TheChef:

Hope I didn't come across as looking down my nose at anyone. As you point out, there may be economic reasons why teams choose not to play the tougher tournaments, and some times (though I think this is pretty infrequent) an arguably big dog doesn't get accepted at a showcase.

But what I really like about USA/ASA qualifiers, including ASA States, is that anyone can enter (assuming that there is not the eligibility issue identified above by fpitchdad and stopping us this year from being able to enter most of the qualifiers). Most times a team can enter up until the last week before the tournament. (Dayton Metro gets to close out their entries well in advance of the tournament because as an independent association they can determine the number of teams that will be allowed; to the best of my knowledge, however, Dayton Metro does not exclude any team that has registered prior to the field maximum having been hit). So with the possible exception of travel expenses, any team seeking to improve its chances of being accepted to the selective college showcases can enter the USA/ASA qualifiers to prove their mettle and/or develop their skills.

Scheduling is indeed a big job and things can unintentionally go wrong. It requires nearly daily attention, as I unfortunately learned recently when a tournament we were really interested in filled. (I had taken a hiatus from OFC for the fall and early winter). Fortunately there is a very good alternative that weekend, but the point is that putting together a good schedule requires a ton of time and attention.

 

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it's a north and south thing. teams south of akron play in southern tournies that are more competative. they play at their teams level. the teams north of akron play northern tournies. there are some very good teams that just steamroll through the tournaments. iv'e said it before. the only time you get a southern team to come up north is to secure a bid.

 

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it's a north and south thing. teams south of akron play in southern tournies that are more competative. they play at their teams level. the teams north of akron play northern tournies. there are some very good teams that just steamroll through the tournaments. iv'e said it before. the only time you get a southern team to come up north is to secure a bid.

we like coming North to see different teams, spent nearly every tournament in the "north" last year. We secure bids in Cincy :lmao:.

Just poking fun... I catch your intended meaning.

 

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Our DD played for an organization the last 2 years that had made an art out of "trophy hunting". Our first year as 10U in travel ball we really didn't know much and couldn't even tell you the difference between NSA and ASA. But the coach sure made himself look good by winning some NSA tournaments.
I wouldn't be shocked a bit if when the organization sat down to pick their tournaments if they didn't say, "OK, now where do we have the best chance of winning?" There was little to no regard in the level of competition.
Our second year, same organization, we were slowly learning and fortunately had coaches who really didn't have a say in the tournaments we played in, but did schedule our team with higher caliber teams to scrimmage...until the rest of the organization said we couldn't scrimmage anymore. I think they were worried parents from other age level teams would catch wind and wonder why their daughter's team wasn't doing the same. We were literally told that we were "not allowed to scrimmage". Apparently actually practicing and playing softball were frowned upon in this organization.
Thankfully, we left and went to an organization that picks their tournaments by asking "what tournaments have the toughest competition for the girls?"
What is teaching the girls when you enter tournaments that you mercy every other team? You're telling the girls that it's OK to purposely beat up on the weaker ones. Why not teach them to strive to compete with the best instead of defeat the lower caliber or rec teams. (I'm not dissing rec...I think rec is a wonderful place for girls who love softball but don't want the level of commitment of travel ball.) I'm just saying I don't think it's fair for "decent" travel teams to be pounding the rec teams and be proud of it.

...Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

 

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we like coming North to see different teams, spent nearly every tournament in the "north" last year. We secure bids in Cincy :lmao:.

Just poking fun... I catch your intended meaning.

Ouch! Lol

 

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With our schedule our focus is mainly on showcases, we do a few locals to get ready for our mostly out of towners. But with us being basically a one team organization its not in our budget to go to a nationals in California, Florida, Texas etc... I feel our schedule is filled with quality exposure against some of the elite teams in the country at Pennsbury, Team New Jersey (2X), Stingrays, Newtown Rock, TNT, etc... Its hard though because it wears on the parents credit cards and pocket books, because if we want to do a quality tournament as a Pittsburgh area team, we have to leave the area and stay the night.

When we first started at 12U trophies where rewarding for our players, but now at 18U, showcasing and our players earning college scholarships/recognition are the reward for our players.

Our schedule, we do approximately 14/15 tournaments from fall-winter-summer.

I just don't know if some coaches/parents know what type of tournaments they are getting into when they make their schedule. Some are uneducated, so are just ignorant to the facts, and indeed want the trophies. I know it took us a few years to figure out on our own the better tournaments for exposure and we are still looking at improving our schedule every year. Our goal is exposure for our girls to Ohio schools, Pittsburgh area, and Eastern PA schools/NY/NJ/WV/NY. Most of our girls aren't interested in the deep south very much. Even though I understand why teams play these tournaments, I would rather save our money and do TNT, Team New Jersey, Newtown Rock etc.. instead of spending a ton to go to a Rising Stars in Florida, or Sparkler in Colorado.

Even though I would love to do one, we try to consider our parents and how much they are spending. I can't see having them go into debt into their eye balls to play in Florida, etc.... But every year as our team improves and gets better, it gets harder to find quality teams to play, so eventually we may have to go in this direction.

 

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dd played for lenos last 2 years. played alot of tournaments you were in. only once did we go north and that was a mistake. i live up north and most tournaments are a joke.

 

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dd played for lenos last 2 years. played alot of tournaments you were in. only once did we go north and that was a mistake. i live up north and most tournaments are a joke.

Have to agree with you on this one....for the 14u and up divisions
Only tournaments worthy are the ASA Nats (strongville and toledo) because it draws teams looking for the bid and ASA States

 

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Our goal is exposure for our girls to Ohio schools, Pittsburgh area, and Eastern PA schools/NY/NJ/WV/NY. Most of our girls aren't interested in the deep south very much. Even though I understand why teams play these tournaments, I would rather save our money and do TNT, Team New Jersey, Newtown Rock etc.. instead of spending a ton to go to a Rising Stars in Florida, or Sparkler in Colorado.

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Not a bad approach....

 

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Obviously, I think this depends on the age group. There are a myriad of factors that go in to choosing a schedule.

For instance, thinking about our team, USSSA has the 11u Nationals right here in Ohio, so we chose two USSSA tournaments for the summer. We chose a few ASA Eastern qualifiers as well. I don't fault an elite org for trying to enter those types of tournaments at 11u. The Lasers Purple did it last year and us and the Thunder Elite '00 will likely be there this year.

Next year for us, however, we will likely be in only ASA/USA tournaments. The same will likely be true at 13u and 14u. By 16u, I think a lot of the true "elite" softball teams play very little in Ohio, and instead, travel south or west for their tournaments. It only makes sense...you're not really showcasing your team if you are in front of the same 7 - 12 college coaches every tournament.

In my experience, it is very clear that my teams have learned the most from playing the best teams.

As for what other teams schedule or win, I am not too concerned with where or who they have played. It is my team's job to beat them if we face them, whether they have 7 tournaments championships or none. This stuff tends to get worked out on the field.

 

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woolfman:

Nothing wrong with the approach you describe as long as the young ladies aren't looking to develop to their best level of play and/or aren't looking to play in college. The key is communication. IMHO, the parents shouldn't be dictating the level of play to the coaches. Most travel ball coaches who aspire to the toughest tournaments make that clear at try-outs and in other settings. If the young lady wants to play more than rec ball but still views the game as for fun, for winning, and not something that should push her hard, there are plenty of travel teams out there to fit that bill. I suspect, however, that more families are disappointed by travel ball coaches who promise the top flight competition and then don't follow through than by travel ball coaches who do what they say they are going to do.

another very good post. Communication is the KEY!!! Nothing worse than finding out that your dd's team (14 +) is playing 8 tournaments all in the same general geographic area and when you ask the Coach why they entered these tournaments and didn't consider others, its because sally, mary and susie can't afford to attend more than 2 overnight tournaments....gotta be on the same page...the team MUST have a common goal

 

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woolfman:

Nothing wrong with the approach you describe as long as the young ladies aren't looking to develop to their best level of play and/or aren't looking to play in college. The key is communication. IMHO, the parents shouldn't be dictating the level of play to the coaches. Most travel ball coaches who aspire to the toughest tournaments make that clear at try-outs and in other settings. If the young lady wants to play more than rec ball but still views the game as for fun, for winning, and not something that should push her hard, there are plenty of travel teams out there to fit that bill. I suspect, however, that more families are disappointed by travel ball coaches who promise the top flight competition and then don't follow through than by travel ball coaches who do what they say they are going to do.

BTW, I also believe that burnout can frequently be caused by the coaches' reactions to losses. I have come to appreciate that when we lose to a really good team, it does no good to read our team the riot act. Stress how the game was a quality game, how certain things were done really well, and how if certain other things were corrected the game result might have been different. Do it calmly. And when there is one of those frustrating games where the wheels come off, just tell them to flush the game (they probably won't, which is in some respects good, but they need to know that you aren't going to obsess on the game). The hardest scenario for me as a coach is when the players don't do things that you ask them to do that are totally within their control, like help with momentum by giving vocal support while in the field and on the bench. Or refraining from publicly sulking when things don't go right. But even in those situations, when I have lost my temper it usually doesn't do the team much good. Being very very direct but still calm is probably the much better approach. I try to take lessons from our head coach on that score.

CGS: I agree with everything you say and add that another big challenge for coaches at the elite level is to try to teach the game at a high level and balance it with fun so the players want to keep coming back. Burnout occurs when playing becomes more of a chore. Games by definition are for fun. It is easy to lose sight of that the more competitive things get. I believe you express the same views from what I am reading above. I guess I'm just saying it in a different way.

 

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i have mostly watch dd's tournies at that age bracket(dd's a 98). but even at 14u,16u there is no competition for the south. look at the coaches poll. and watch for the coaches poll this year. it is for the most part pretty acurate. there won't be any suprises from the north. for years i've seen teams roll through tournaments up north .take those same teams and put them in lasers,stingrays, metro... and there gone sunday morning.

 

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i have mostly watch dd's tournies at that age bracket(dd's a 98). but even at 14u,16u there is no competition for the south. look at the coaches poll. and watch for the coaches poll this year. it is for the most part pretty acurate. there won't be any suprises from the north. for years i've seen teams roll through tournaments up north .take those same teams and put them in lasers,stingrays, metro... and there gone sunday morning.

Doesn't your daughter play for a team up north now? I'm confused...are you saying that there are no 14u+ teams from up north that can compete?

 

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It only makes sense...you're not really showcasing your team if you are in front of the same 7 - 12 college coaches every tournament.

Very true.