You make the ?call:

[default]

All of these were at the same tourmament and one team was involved in all 3:

Situation 1:
Bases loaded and 1 out. Line drive to the third baseman is caught, she has to make a lunging tag to get the runner on third before she gets back to complete the double play. The runner takes offence by the tag. After she gets up off the ground she starts to head to the opposing teams huddle out side their dugout as they get ready to hit. Coaches have to restrain her.

if you were the umpire what would you do?

Situation 2: Same team different game.
They are down 5-0. There is a pop up. The pitcher,catcher and first baseman are husttling to make the play in foul territoty. The on deck batter gets out of the way. the ball is missed played on the fence. The coach yells to the on deck batter the next time that happens do not move from that on deck circle. A fan yells out that is not fair. The coach replies " I'm not here to be fair I'm here to win."

If you are the umpire what would you call?

Situation 3: Same team same game.
The team is now down late in the game 5-2. Batter hits a ground ball to the shortstop. It is fielded and thrown to first for the out. As the batter crosses the bag she throws an elbow at the first baseman.

The umpire gave a warning.

If you are the umpire what would you call?

I do not know if I have ever witnessed a display of unsportmanlike conduct from one team.

I am an umpire and know what i would have done on all three situations. Just would like to here your opinions.

 

[default]

Situation 1...Toss her
Situation 2... Nothing.. some coaches just do not get it...Not sure an ump could do anything anyways.
Situation 3... May not have happend if the girl would have been tossed in Situation 1...again I would have tossed her...These are just my opinions and I am no umpire and I also do not know the whole story,,,,,, but I do know there is no room for this kind of behavior in the game of fastpitch.....

 

[default]

Re: You make the  call:

1. TOSS HER
2. nothing, grin and bear it
3. TOSS HER, warning...what a joke. If it was blatant they have to be tossed. Since she will be seeing different umps with each game through the summer whats a warning going to do and if the actions are something that could injure another player it must be stopped.

643dp, I not sure the DD in sit 1 is the same as the DD in sit 3.

 

[default]

1. ?Toss her...maybe..... maybe not. If I felt that the coach took care of the situation, nothin.
2. ?Nothing
3. ?Toss her

I am an umpire.

 

[default]

1. TOSS HER
2. nothing, grin and bear it
3. TOSS HER, warning...what a joke. If it was blatant they have to be tossed. Since she will be seeing different umps with each game through the summer whats a warning going to do and if the actions are something that could injure another player it must be stopped.

643dp, I not sure the DD in sit 1 is the same as the DD in sit 3.

It was 2 different players. sit 1 & 3

In sit 2- I ?need to confirm (rule book)...but if in my opinion the on deck batter caused an obstruction to the fielders when they were attempting to catch the foul ball I would call the batter out. Obstruction on the on deck batter.

 

[default]

[quote author=mustohiofastpitch link=1214756500/0#2 date=1214758855]
1. TOSS HER
2. nothing, grin and bear it
3. TOSS HER, warning...what a joke. If it was blatant they have to be tossed. Since she will be seeing different umps with each game through the summer whats a warning going to do and if the actions are something that could injure another player it must be stopped.

643dp, I not sure the DD in sit 1 is the same as the DD in sit 3.

It was 2 different players. sit1 &2

In sit 3- I ?need to confirm (rule book)...but if in my opinion the on deck batter caused an obstruction to the fielders when they were attempting to catch the foul ball I would call the batter out. Obstruction on the on deck batter.
[/quote]

I believe that if there is an actuall batters circle, then the on deck batter does not have to move, they can hold their ground and it is not considered an obstruction. Not positive on the various organizations rules, but believe this is true at least at the NCAA level.

 

[default]

Re: You make the  call:

[quote author=mustohiofastpitch link=1214756500/0#2 date=1214758855]
1. TOSS HER
2. nothing, grin and bear it
3. TOSS HER, warning...what a joke. If it was blatant they have to be tossed. Since she will be seeing different umps with each game through the summer whats a warning going to do and if the actions are something that could injure another player it must be stopped.

643dp, I not sure the DD in sit 1 is the same as the DD in sit 3.

It was 2 different players. sit1 &2

In sit 3- I need to confirm (rule book)...but if in my opinion the on deck batter caused an obstruction to the fielders when they were attempting to catch the foul ball I would call the batter out. Obstruction on the on deck batter.
[/quote]

The ON DECK incident is Situation 2 (not 3) and I think you mean different players for st 1 & 3.
Who's on first? ;D

 

[default]

I guess this is one for bretman.

there are alot of diferent situations were this type of ruling can come into play.

A coach in the coaches box. Do they need to move if they are in the coaches box?

A player in the batters box when their is a passed ball and a play at the plate. To me all of these can interfere with the game or play.

 

[default]

[quote author=BlueDevilDad link=1214756500/0#4 date=1214760399][quote author=mustohiofastpitch link=1214756500/0#2 date=1214758855]
1. TOSS HER
2. nothing, grin and bear it
3. TOSS HER, warning...what a joke. If it was blatant they have to be tossed. Since she will be seeing different umps with each game through the summer whats a warning going to do and if the actions are something that could injure another player it must be stopped.

643dp, I not sure the DD in sit 1 is the same as the DD in sit 3.

It was 2 different players. sit1 &2

In sit 3- I ?need to confirm (rule book)...but if in my opinion the on deck batter caused an obstruction to the fielders when they were attempting to catch the foul ball I would call the batter out. Obstruction on the on deck batter.
[/quote]

The ON DECK incident is Situation 2 (not 3) and I think you mean different players for st 1 & 3.
Who's on first? ?;D[/quote]


yes, you are right. I fixed it. thank you.

 

[default]

1. TOSS HER
2. nothing, grin and bear it
3. TOSS HER, warning...what a joke. If it was blatant they have to be tossed. Since she will be seeing different umps with each game through the summer whats a warning going to do and if the actions are something that could injure another player it must be stopped.

643dp, I not sure the DD in sit 1 is the same as the DD in sit 3.

I just meant that if girl in situation 1 would have been tossed maybe the elbow may have never been thrown. Umps can gain control of game if they are stern early....JMO

 

[default]

[quote author=mustohiofastpitch link=1214756500/0#2 date=1214758855]
1. TOSS HER
2. nothing, grin and bear it
3. TOSS HER, warning...what a joke. If it was blatant they have to be tossed. Since she will be seeing different umps with each game through the summer whats a warning going to do and if the actions are something that could injure another player it must be stopped.

643dp, I not sure the DD in sit 1 is the same as the DD in sit 3.

I just meant that if girl in situation 1 would have been tossed maybe the elbow may have never been thrown. Umps can gain control of game if they are stern early....JMO[/quote]


100% agree

 

[default]

Yes coach in box has to attempt to get out of the way, along with the batter in the box, and yes the on deck batter does also.

ASA book covers all of these

By base coach rule 8 section 7 article M,O
by batter (hindering the catcher) ?rule 7 section 6 article P-S
By on-deck batter rule 7 section 1 article D

 

[default]

I'm so comfused but I'm sure "put one under their chin" can't be too far behind

 

[default]

Finally got the internet working in my hotel room...

#1) As long as I did not judge the tag to have been with "excessive force" (if it was, I'd address that with the fielder- doesn't sound like it was)...

If this is the first such incident, I'm going to tell the player (in my sternest, mean old umpire voice), "Knock it off and get back in your dugout- ?RIGHT NOW!". If she complies, she just might get to stick around to see the rest of the game. If she does not, she's going to get herself ejected. This player would be on a short leash for the rest of the game, with respect to any unsportsmanlike actions. Also, would probably discuss briefly with her coach and remind him to maintain control of his players.

#2) Lower level rec game- I might remind the coach that his on-deck batter needs to vacate any space the defense needs to make the play. If she does not, it can be ruled as interference.

Upper level, travel game- might not say a word. There was no violation on the play. If a coach wants to yell dumb things at his own players, that is his problem! If the player heeds the bad advice and interferes next time, then I'd call the interference- if and when it actually happens.

#3) Would have to see it. If the elbow didn't "connect", probably a strong warning. If it actually hit the fielder, probably an ejection.

In #1 and #3, both actions could warrant an immediate ejection and I would not question any umpire that took that route. But, I might try to either warn or address the rough play first. Let the player's know that rough play is unnacceptable and that you will be watching. Makes any subsequent ejections that much easier!

Whether I would warn or eject might not have a "one-size fits all" answer. It might depend on how flagrant the violation was, what other incidents may have led up to it or if the same player is the guilty party on multiple offenses.

 

[default]

Re: You make the  call:

[highlight]"But, I might try to either warn or address the rough play first. Let the player's know that rough play is unnacceptable and that you will be watching. Makes any subsequent ejections that much easier! "[/highlight]

I think that is the wrong way to handle it. As much as I despise the "Zero Tolerance" philosophies that have invaded our lazy society it is warranted here and here's why. I'm talking balent rough play like the elbow to the first baseman or the DD that had to be restrained. As an ump you may only see that girl in one game and in the one game she may only be a runner a couple times. Not enough to see a pattern. She could have a season long history of bad behavior but only get "warnings" which don't faze her because because there is no cost to her. Each ump did not know she has this history so they just kept giving her warnings. Now handle it firmly and maybe it only happens 1 or 2 times all season before her and her coach and family fix the problem because it is "costing" them something. Better for everyone, especially the DD. Umps just need to have the guts to do whats right. JMHO

 

[default]

[highlight]"But, I might try to either warn or address the rough play first. Let the player's know that rough play is unnacceptable and that you will be watching. Makes any subsequent ejections that much easier! "[/highlight]

I think that is the wrong way to handle it. As much as I despise the "Zero Tolerance" philosophies that have invaded our lazy society it is warranted here and here's why. I'm talking balent rough play like the elbow to the first baseman or the DD that had to be restrained. As an ump you may only see that girl in one game and in the one game she may only be a runner a couple times. Not enough to see a pattern. She could have a season long history of bad behavior but only get "warnings" which don't faze her because because there is no cost to her. Each ump did not know she has this history so they just kept giving her warnings. Now handle it firmly and maybe it only happens 1 or 2 times all season before her and her coach and family fix the problem because it is "costing" them something. Better for everyone, especially the DD. Umps just need to have the guts to do whats right. JMHO

My response to these would be as follows:

1) ejection
2) if I deem to be interference then the batter would be called out
3) ejection

There is no room for this type of behavior in the greatest game on earth Fastpitch Softball.

 

[default]

Again, if any umpire ejected on the spot, I would not have a problem with it.

The point I was trying to make is that the ejection is at the discretion of the umpire and is not automatic. You really need to judge each incident on a case-by-case basis, depending on the nature of the infraction, how flagrant it was, the tone of the game up to that point, if there has been previous warnings issued, etc.

But that's just me. I tend to cut the players a little slack. Adolescent girls can do some pretty strange stuff in the heat of the moment, under the pressure of their peers, parents, coaches and the environment of competition. On the other hand, I don't put up with too much crap during a game! There is a fine line between being overly strict and being too lenient. Each umpire has to find his own balance point and his own way of managing these kind of situations.

 

[default]

Situation 1 - I would hope that i was paying attention to what was going on on the field and prevent anything before it happens and give the player a stern warning that she could be ejected if there is any unsportsman like activity. If I don't get there and the coach can calm her down before anything happens then again i would give her a stern warning, if she gets to the point of threatening or anything physical then ejection is very probable.

Situation 2 - After the situation I would give the coach the a stern warning on sportsmanship and commend the on deck batter for doing the right thing and that if she did what her coach told her to, and did not move it would be a pretty good chance that it would cost her team an out for interference.

Situation 3 - No doubt about if no contact with the elbow it would have to depend on how blatant the elbow was but if contact is made it is an automatic ejection.

 

[default]

Still have to say that in situation #2 there is nothing for the umpire to address.

There were no rule violations on the play. There were no unsportsmanlike acts committed. The coach addressed his own player, which he has a right to do (even if he's giving her dumb advice). The fan outside the fence isn't an umpire's concern and a spectator can pretty much yell whatever they want (if it becomes obscene or threatening, the fan should be handled by the team's own coach or by tournament officials).

 

[default]

Re: You make the ????call:

I agree with Bluedevildad. One thing I did want to point out is IMO throwing an elbow attempting to hit somebody and missing is the same as throwing an elbow and hitting somebody. The intent is exactly the same only the result is different.

Like BDD said there is no place for any of this.