Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Replanting of pitching foot

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Member

• May 11, 2008

• #1

My daughters high school team played a team that the pitcher comes off the mound with a drag than replants her foot to deliver the the pitch. Looked at the video on the other post and it says when hands are still together. This girls hands are apart but she replants her foot a good 3 foot off of the pitching ?plate. Have played this team 2 times and no ump. will call this. Have complaned to the base ump. and he just smiled and walked away. At the other game a parent sayed someting about it to the home plate ump. and he saided that they can go the OHSAA ump classes to became a ump. What is the call.

 

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Member

• May 11, 2008

• #2

If every illegal pitch was called at the high school level, the games would probably be over 4 hours long. Now which is the "right" thing to do? Call each and every infraction exactly by the book, or let a few slide in the best interest of everyone to, ahem, move the games along. There is no doubt that an illegal pitch is just that, and should be called as such. My opinion? I used to be a hardliner, but now I consider the age and ability level. Sort of a "real world" outlook. I honestly think some umpires look at it that way too. Which is the "right" way? You be the judge.

fpdad06 - it's very difficult to make a judgment based on what you describe. It sounds like a classic replant, which is illegal regardless of whether the hands have separated or not. Essentially, the drag foot cannot be used again for leverage by replanting after it has dragged away from the pitcher's plate. I know it's not really described this way in the rule books, but logic, common sense and spirit of the rule should be what is used here. A picture, or better yet, video is far better than words - it removes all doubt from a subjective description.

 

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• May 11, 2008

• #3

" If every illegal pitch was called at the high school level, the games would probably be over 4 hours long"

EVERY illegal pitch SHOULD be called no matter what! OR the rules should be changed. In all fairness their should not be much variance between umps. If the ump knows its illegal it should be called. A team or girl following the rules should not be penalized for playing by the rules.

And I am not talking about ump ignorance of the rules but their ignoring the rules. Should not be tolerated!

 

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• May 11, 2008

• #4

I agree mustohio but lets not just pick out the pitcher. Lets call all the batters who are out of the batters box, lets stop giving first base to batters who lean into the strike zone to get hit, lets actually call the strike zone as is should be, I'm all for calling the illegal pitches but only if all the other items are corrected too, I wonder how many people would stand for that.

 

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• May 11, 2008

• #5

It is very hard to "drag" and then re plant your foot and throw. It is much easier to leap and "re-plant" and then throw.

?That is an illeagal pitch.

Where the problem occurs is usually during the "leap and drag" there are two legal ways to leap and drag.

1) On the side of your big toe side

2) or on your toe, shoe strings down

?Where the pitch becomes illegal is when the pitcher re establishes any part of the botton of her back foot before letting go of the ball.

?Some times the hole in front of the pitchers mound. it looks like the girls are "jumping" over it. It is next to impossible to drag your foot down into the hole and back up again.

?And remember, the pitcher has to be gaining an advantage for the blue to actually call it.

 

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Member

• May 11, 2008

• #6

If I am correct it is more like a crow hop but the foot drags. And it is not hard at all.

I think it is ridiculous to just let it continue. The umpire should call it every time and if the pitcher cannot make the adjustment the team will have to pull her until she can.

I can see giving a little slack for things like losing contact with the ground but a replant is outrageous and to tolerate it is a diservice the girl pitching, the other team and softball in general.
You can get more power on the pitch and are throwing from closer. I know this from trying it myself and if you can get away with it is a competitive advantage.

I am betting this girl can pitch under regulations and I am betting she has been stopped from doing so at some point before.

To me this isnt just letting something small slide but giving advantage to a player. My view if an umpire is missing that call they need to turn in their equipment.

I am stunned that someone actually condones letting it slide. Unreal.

 

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Member

• May 11, 2008

• #7

ThatGuy2120 said:

I can see giving a little slack for things like losing contact with the ground but a replant is outrageous and to tolerate it is a diservice the girl pitching, the other team and softball in general.

Click to expand...

I agree with this 100%. It is a diservice to the pitcher who is being allowed to throw illegal pitches. There will come a time when she faces an umpire who does call it and she will have to change her whole pitching style. I am sure that it will cost her a lot of time and energy to correct bad muscle memory!! IMO :-/

 

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• May 11, 2008

• #8

This topic is an annual rehash with the same results. I watched my DD pitch legally for 4 years in high school, during which time easily 1/3 of the pitchers were illegal. One particular game featured a pitcher that was so blatantly replanting that my DD had to cover her replant hole between innings. After that game, I asked the plate ump - out of earshot of anyone else - if he noticed her replanting. His answer solidified the reason I just "let it go" for the rest of DD's high school years: He told me that BOTH pitchers were illegal, because their back (drag) foot wasn't still in contact with the pitching rubber when they released the ball.

I just bit my tongue as my wife dragged me away... :

 

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Member

• May 12, 2008

• #9

This topic is rehashed over and over for good reason, it's not called or corrected. Watched a girl pitch where clearly both feet were airborne (6" off ground) then she re-planted (3' out front) and then dragged her toe. Knowing the parents fairly well I pointed this out so she could get it corrected with pitching coach before it gets any worse, not that it could. Fathers reply, "I do not see any thing wrong with it, she gets more power from it, and they don't call it illegal and I've the watched state tournaments year after year". You really can't argue his point, if it's going to be permitted. I did watch VTech play NC State and Tincher get called for what, 5 illegal pitches, if not more. Felt bad for her, but, they were illegal pitches. Umpires need to enforce the rules.

 

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Member

• May 12, 2008

• #10

This should be very simple - Umpires need to enforce the rules or they need to be changed to what will be enforced. Then you would not have any confusion and it would be fair play. What we have now is stupidity at its finest! :

 

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• May 12, 2008

• #11

In some cases its hard to enforce what you dont know. :-X

 

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Member

• May 13, 2008

• #12

http://www.nfhs.org/web/2008/02/softball_video_clips__training.aspx

This is being discussed about three posts down. This was also discussed on J J Huddle where the above web site is posted.

 

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Member

• May 13, 2008

• #13

sammy, at least you didn't go all LL Cool J on him like the guy in that other post...man, our tongues have been bitten enough to look like the inside of currogated pipe!

 

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• May 14, 2008

• #14

First of all, the rule for a pitcher to keep the pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate is a slow pitch only rule. Secondly, you are correct it is a discredit to the pitcher and the game if we do not call illegal pithces no matter what the level because the players learn something a lot quicker if they are penalized for it instead of just talking to them. Please remember though, if there is a hole in front of the pitcher's plate the tow does not have to drag in the dirt, the toe only has to stay level with the pitcher's plate. there is no legal leap and drag, if it is a leap from the pitcher's plate it is illegal.

 

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• May 14, 2008

• #15

I think the habit of becoming illegally airborne is a product of poor teaching, and not correcting flawed pitching mechanics during the learning process. When a kid is just learning at, say 9 or 10, their motion looks more like a "step and drag". They simply take a step forward (stride), then drag their back foot forward - typically up to the back of the planted stride foot - while releasing the pitch. As they progress, they gradually learn to push off harder with their back foot. If not monitored closely and corrected, it can turn into a leap with no drag. These are the kids you see that look like they are jumping instead of striding. You'll typically see two holes where their feet land, with a drag mark AFTER the back hole - a sort of "jump - land - drag" scenario. Their drag happens after their illegal leap.

The legal pitchers have figured out how to use a powerful push off from the pitcher's plate. The difference is that they have also figured out how to keep their drag toe pointed DOWN so that it remains in contact with the ground. Watch the pitchers on Siggy's clips site. Most are legal. Note the energy they put into their motion. They are very explosive, and generally stride nearly out of the front of the pitcher's circle - perfectly legal. But most keep that drag toe pretty darn close to the ground. NONE of them do the little sideways jump. They would never make it to that level with that type of motion!