What can NSA do to regain their footing in Ohio?

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

The tie-break rules are something implimented by TD's for the most extreme of situations. Our rulebook only address tie-breakers if the game is tied when time expires or after 7 innings. In that case the international tie breaker is used until the tie is broken.

In regards to guaranteed games, I am working on posting a refund/rain out policy for tournaments under my direction to my website. Look for this by this weekend. www.playnsaohio.com under the fast-pitch column. I am also going to have my TD's spell out if they are doing something different in regards to forfeits. I have had three different kinds of forfeits over the years: one where a team called on Friday night and dropped and the spot could not be filled, a couple where teams flat no-showed the morning of the event leaving the same situation of not being able to fill, and also had a team that was going to be last no matter what they did there last pool game just go home and not come back untilt he next morning. I can't make a team stick around in those cases to give another there guaranteed games.

I am not aware of any policy with hotels at the World Series as I only have worked the Worlds when they have been in Columbus and do not require housing. I can't speak to that as I am not privvy to the info.

Mike

Parma Wildcats said:

1.) get rid of the stupid tie breaker ie most runners on blank base...
2.) also 4 gg means just that, if 4 games are not played some money should be returned...
3.) states or nationals should never have a restriction that you have to book hotels with a certain group of hotels, or you owe the host $500.00 if you get rooms outside of said group of hotels

those are the reasons we no longer play NSA

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Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

A couple of my thoughts from reading the responses:

1) Mandatory State-The mandatory state rule is an NSA by-law that somehow got implemented years and years ago as a continuation of an adult slow-pitch rule. There is another sanction that wears red that has the same rule, it is just not as strictly enforced in there group as ours. Of course I do not get excited about it, but right now as long as it is a rule I have to enforce it. I was not a fan of the "alternate" state idea. My theory on rules are that if they are good enough for one, they are good enough for all and that if teams in the south were being held to playing the states in July then the north teams should be also held to it. I also have questions about allowing a team to meet a state requirement playing in a dome in the middle of winter with altered rules, but that is just me talking.

2) Mandatory UIC-I did not like this for years but it makes perfect sense in the fast-pitch world. I will give you an example of what this does for me at an event. When I get tot he complex at 6:30 ish (lol) I do not have time to deal with getting umpires there schedules, game cards, softballs etc, especially if it is rain or a potential rain delay situation. My focus is on schedule and when we can get started. I let my UIC take care of the umpire needs at that point. I run my tournaments different in that I have a coaches meeting at about 45 minutes before the first game. Me and my UIC go over all rules, how to handle scores, location of brackets, handling of the game clock, and other general information for the weekend. I believe in getting everyone on the same page right out of the gate. Right after my UIC and I will have our umpires meeting. Again, to get everyone on the same page right out of the chute. I at that point hand my UIC the umpire fees for the weekend. I do not have to worry at the end of the day in trying to track umpires game fees, or scheduling for Sunday. That is my UIC's area to handle. He takes care of any one with housing issues also if we are putting anyone up. I can make sure brackets are updated, be available for any coach concerns or questions, and also make sure of field maintenance scheduling in case something needs to be changed for Sunday morning at the start. For this service it is well worth the money to me.

Mike

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

bouldersdad said:

Stop the madness.......... go from one extreme. holding NSA states in the SW corner, to the other end,, the NE corner, come one ,it cant be that difficult for intelligent people to see that cols is nuetral to both, stick the stupid thing in the middle and play ball.
Have to play NSA states to play in the world........ who dosent see this as a money grab..... that and teal town is why people rose up. It always was and always will be a stupid idea.
I like the NIT , that is def a step in the right direction
Years ago the top tier teams in Ohio played a ASA/NSA schedule because the tournemants were so good , with a little common sense and giveing the coaches what they want, it will happen again

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NSA is at different locations now with different age groups. If you put them all in Columbus.. you have field problems and having multiple TD's at different locations. Costly problem.

Mike: If the North wants to have their own event for the state.. then so be it. Nothing you can do about it. Alternative state during the winter = an absolute joke.

Put an age group in Columbus... a couple of them ( as fields are NOW open because of the GAPPS movement).

Have another two age groups somewhere and then a single age group somewhere.

Suggestion: 16u-18u in Columbus, Ohio 14u in one location and 12u/10u in another.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

1) Mandatory State-The mandatory state rule is an NSA by-law that somehow got implemented years and years ago as a continuation of an adult slow-pitch rule. There is another sanction that wears red that has the same rule, it is just not as strictly enforced in there group as ours. Of course I do not get excited about it, but right now as long as it is a rule I have to enforce it. I was not a fan of the "alternate" state idea. My theory on rules are that if they are good enough for one, they are good enough for all and that if teams in the south were being held to playing the states in July then the north teams should be also held to it. I also have questions about allowing a team to meet a state requirement playing in a dome in the middle of winter with altered rules, but that is just me talking.

Mike you asked , constructivly what could be done to better relations between the NSA and Ohio Teams. The NSA State is a sore spot to almost anyone you ask, it dosent matter what USSSA does or does not enforce. You must enforce the rules as they are handed down from up above. And their rule is you must still play NSA States in order to play the world, So the truth of it is they still dont care what the teams in ohio want?.... It seems to me the NSA still hasent learned anything, I wish you luck trying to stop the bleeding

Tim

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

I would think if NSA wants to get on the right track with teams it would do:

a) stop the manatory States if you already have won a berth. (That's silly)

b) If you haven't won a qualifier..then play two qualifiers and play state (sorry about your luck not winning a qualifier).

c) Keep the state on the 4th of July weekend... let the others battle over June.

d) every qualifier is a NIT so to say....lol Any qualifier is open to out of state teams.. NIT is just the same principle of a qualifier with an NIT in front of it.

and finally e) The big man in Nicholasville reads the OFC. I know...lol won't tell you how I know.. BUT I KNOW.

I'll get off of here and send him this link. He needs to know what the teams think .... and people... be honest and constructive in your points of view.

As for ballfields getting drug every game... it's one thing to line the fields every game and pack the rubber area.. but to drag it each game is a little too much in a large event. Every third game ( and second if you can make it happen) is fine. More than enough.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Mr. NSA got his link.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Tim,

I appreciate your feedback.

Please remember this is not an Ohio only rule, but a National rule. I can only be the messenger and lobby to have it replaced or amended.

The idea that I have is to give the outright winners of a World Qualifier a direct berth into the Worlds. I would propose a 1 in 8 berth ratio. If an age group has 16 teams, then a second direct berth would be given.

To get the NSA to even consider this would require that all situations be addressed. Ones that pop into mind are Fall Qualifiers and Showcase tournaments. Pass downs would have to be addressed along with proposed berth ratios. One thing this would not stop is the non-qualified teams wishing to advance to the Worlds from playing in the state. NSA is not going to drop there state tournaments.

Now with that being said, there would have to be some at-large berths also. I have listed some at-large scenarios on my webpage that I would like to impliment in 2011. One thing that the NSA will never let occur is to let a team just randomly enter the Worlds without participating in the program to some extent.

These are just random thoughts. if you see a flaw or a better way to address the issue, please e-mail or PM.

Mike

bouldersdad said:

1) Mandatory State-The mandatory state rule is an NSA by-law that somehow got implemented years and years ago as a continuation of an adult slow-pitch rule. There is another sanction that wears red that has the same rule, it is just not as strictly enforced in there group as ours. Of course I do not get excited about it, but right now as long as it is a rule I have to enforce it. I was not a fan of the "alternate" state idea. My theory on rules are that if they are good enough for one, they are good enough for all and that if teams in the south were being held to playing the states in July then the north teams should be also held to it. I also have questions about allowing a team to meet a state requirement playing in a dome in the middle of winter with altered rules, but that is just me talking.

Mike you asked , constructivly what could be done to better relations between the NSA and Ohio Teams. The NSA State is a sore spot to almost anyone you ask, it dosent matter what USSSA does or does not enforce. You must enforce the rules as they are handed down from up above. And their rule is you must still play NSA States in order to play the world, So the truth of it is they still dont care what the teams in ohio want?.... It seems to me the NSA still hasent learned anything, I wish you luck trying to stop the bleeding

Tim

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Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Mike Craig said:

Tim,

I appreciate your feedback.

Please remember this is not an Ohio only rule, but a National rule. I can only be the messenger and lobby to have it replaced or amended.

The idea that I have is to give the outright winners of a World Qualifier a direct berth into the Worlds. I would propose a 1 in 8 berth ratio. If an age group has 16 teams, then a second direct berth would be given.

To get the NSA to even consider this would require that all situations be addressed. Ones that pop into mind are Fall Qualifiers and Showcase tournaments. Pass downs would have to be addressed along with proposed berth ratios. One thing this would not stop is the non-qualified teams wishing to advance to the Worlds from playing in the state. NSA is not going to drop there state tournaments.

Now with that being said, there would have to be some at-large berths also. I have listed some at-large scenarios on my webpage that I would like to impliment in 2011. One thing that the NSA will never let occur is to let a team just randomly enter the Worlds without participating in the program to some extent.

These are just random thoughts. if you see a flaw or a better way to address the issue, please e-mail or PM.

Mike

Click to expand...

The idea that I have is to give the outright winners of a World Qualifier a direct berth into the Worlds. I would propose a 1 in 8 berth ratio. If an age group has 16 teams, then a second direct berth would be given

That is a step in the right direction and I think you could make that fly with Ohio teams.....

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

NSA needs to drop their (required state tournament). If someone wins a National Qualifier... then they won it outright. Why make them go to the states? That's simply silly.

But having participation in NSA events in Ohio ( and that is what this is about - Ohio) NSA has to get with the program. Participation comes from teams... and without them... well you don't have NSA. Very simple concept.

Win a berth - don't have to go to States.

Haven't won a berth - play in two (2) qualifiers and states and go. ( There's your participation)
Fall Qualifiers.. what's the big deal with that? Haven't seen an NSA Fall College Showcase yet in Ohio or am I mistaken ?

Berth ratios...1 berth for the first 8 and 2 berths for anything after 12 teams. Nothing like making teams mad because there is 13, 14, or 15 teams in an event and one berth... Just my opinion

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

years ago the classics used to do a fall NSA, but even they have went ASA I believe, In was big NSA in the fall where we went, thats about all I can remember

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

You gotta give Mike credit to be willing to come in here and take the heat and ask opinions.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

ohioquakerman said:

You gotta give Mike credit to be willing to come in here and take the heat and ask opinions.

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I agree.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Mike does an excellent job running his tournaments. We went to a couple when it was USSSA, and we would go back if he was running them.

As for NSA, my team will not play in a NSA tournament until they drop the requirement of playing in states after you qualify by winning a berth elsewhere. We would be willing to come back to NSA if Mike is in charge, and they drop that requirement.

Otherwise, we will continue to play ASA.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

I sent Mr. NSA a letter giving him this link so he can hear first hand how teams feel.

I agree Buckeye Heat.. doesn't make any sense at all to win a qualifier and then be force to play in a state event. A team done their part... won the qualifier ahead of all the other teams in the tournament.

I mean.. here's some common sense..when it comes to Ohio.

If I won a berth in say the Fall or June... and here comes the NSA States on the Fourth of July weekend.... Now, there is no GAPPS event.... where am I going to play a quality tournament on the 4th of July even IF my team has already won a berth earlier...

Could that answer be - NSA States ?

Hmmmmm ?

In other words, going to it...without being forced to do so... just to play the competition and against many others seeking that berth or complying with the two (2) National qualifier and a state event for the non-berth winners. Let alone the teams that could careless about going to NSA World and just want to play the 4th of July.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Obviously, NSA National is not oblivious to the fact that the Ohio team participation at the Nationals has probally hit an all time low... talk about hitting the pocketbook.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Mike,

We have talked in the past and I am confident that you are going to do a great job. The rain out policy is going to be huge for NSA and it sounds like you are on top of it.

NSA mandated we all play states (to go to NATS) but states ended up being a big debacle in 08'. This is the reason for the issues and the light hearted apology did not set well with many.

My suggestions;
1) Hold an Ohio team appreciation tournament or even state tournament. Do this at a ridiculously low entry fee for all and even lower fee for teams that participated in the 08' state. I think this one time event would go along way to showing NSA appreciation.

2) Another slight that I thought I read last year but could be wrong or outside of your control. Make teams earn their berths not just play in NQ and state tournament to get the national berth.

We will play some NSA this year but not nearly as much as we did two years ago. We look forward to having additional options n the future.

Also mandate certain criteria for state tournament sites. Going from Teal town in 08' to Ohio Sports Park in 09' was not a step up.

Thanks for asking Mike!

Derek Jacobs
Ohio Hawks

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Derek: Every association does the play two and go. USSSA does it with a requirement of States. ASA does it with Eastern Regionals....BUT ASA does the ASA/USA as a winning thing. But it is a National Tournament and not divided East, West, North and South like ASA Regionals are where ASA wants that participation.

I can't see NSA at a true National tournament like ASA. At least NSA has only East and West National events.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

ohioquakerman said:

Derek: Every association does the play two and go. USSSA does it with a requirement of States. ASA does it with Eastern Regionals....BUT ASA does the ASA/USA as a winning thing. But it is a National Tournament and not divided East, West, North and South like ASA Regionals are where ASA wants that participation.

I can't see NSA at a true National tournament like ASA. At least NSA has only East and West National events.

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I thought I read it was a play one, play states and go to NSA nats. I have been wrong before. thanks Tim!

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Could be Derek....lol Ask Mike...

I just throwing out a scenerio if they want "participation" and that it is their main reasoning in forcing an already qualified team playing states...as a winner already of the berth .... well... make it two Qualifiers and a state for the non berth teams to give them that right to the Nationals through "participation".

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

ASA/USA Nationals = best event in all of America
NSA Nationals = Don't be surprised to see ASA/USA teams there for a warm up
ASA Regionals = Fine regional action
USSSA = Vacation

Just my opinion