What can NSA do to regain their footing in Ohio?

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

I have worked three World Series for NSA here locally and we have had several teams play that placed or did well the very next weekend in the ASA Nationals.

Some teams like to play an exclusive ASA schedule, but in states that have a good NSA program we can usually get them to attend our Worlds if the location is convenient for them. The feature of having the worlds in one general area makes it easier on the organization to track the teams progress. I used to watch Jeff Cavanaugh with the Lady Lasers cruise around Berliner Park in a small 4 wheeler watching all of there teams play during Worlds week.

I would like to do at-large berths for a team that plays 2 outdoor qualifiers and states. We have to also look out for our customers who do not field the powerhouse teams.

Mike

ohioquakerman said:

ASA/USA Nationals = best event in all of America
NSA Nationals = Don't be surprised to see ASA/USA teams there for a warm up
ASA Regionals = Fine regional action
USSSA = Vacation

Just my opinion

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Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

I know... over the years I have seen ASA/USA teams listed at the NSA World.

No kidding aside... after winning the berth at a qualifier... you shouldn't have to go to States. I think that is the only thing teams holding against NSA here in Ohio besides something you had no control over.

People know it wasn't your fault at the past state events. That is absolutely crazy to put all the age groups in one location. At least they learned that...lol

I just don't think that idea of forcing a team to the state after winning the qualifier is in no way, shape or form... right in any way.

They gave you the position of Southern State Director as they don't have anything in the South anymore and hoping you smooth over the rough edges and hard feelings left from past events/problems.

You know yourself, you and I have never met eye to eye on much of anything...lol...

The teams/managers/parents want to trust you to make a difference. I understand it takes NSA National Office to make the change.... but their numbers has to be down at their National events with less amount of teams coming from Ohio unless the Northern part is just glueing a berth to the backs of the coaches when they walk out of a NSA event.

Ohio teams use to love NSA ... the National office needs to bend if they want to get the Ohio teams back.

Come to the chat room, Mike. Go to the last page of the chat room thread and click mibbit link.. then put in your user name and hit go.

The subject tonight set by Boulders Dad is NSA.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

P.S. Like the at-large berths for "participation", too.

We'll see how serious NSA is. The reponse has been overwelming don't require state if you win a berth at a qualifier.

A NSA qualifier held at Spano Dome guaranteed 4 games. After all the money was collected two days before it was changed to 3 games. In an indoor facility it is just greed. They know how many hours they have to work with. I emailed the NSA representative and never got a response. Does NSA condone this type of activity?

At least Warren Jones(ASA) always responds to every email I have sent him.

1) Get rid of the state requirement
2) Lower TD's rates for tournaments. (I guess that is up to john since you did it)
3) Better communication in Northern part of state
4) Don't let A teams play B State and Nationals (Teams that have won 2 or more tournaments) And Shame on coaches that do go to B's knowing how good you are. You know who you are.
JMHO

stop allowing the bid for a state tourney or qualifier go to the same place suspiciously every year even though there have been other deserving place sin the past...both ASA and NSA can learn from that

I read all 5 pages and came to the conclusion that main complaint #1 is not going to change .

I'll throw this out there as it's something that would separate you from the competition. Currently ASA has an unenforced rule that some people are using to scare teams aware from playing up in age groups. Meaning if you play up in age at any quailfier , you are Disqualified from competing at Nats . doesn't matter if you win it's just playing up cost you , or at the very least puts at risk , the chance the TD at Nats kicks you out of the tourney. And with nearly all tournies being a eastern qualifier the best teams can't play up. anymore.

I'd purpose doing away with dumb rule . heck maybe NSA doesn't even have it. thats my thought. MD

ManitouDan said:

I read all 5 pages and came to the conclusion that main complaint #1 is not going to change .

Meaning if you play up in age at any quailfier , you are Disqualified from competing at Nats . doesn't matter if you win it's just playing up cost you , or at the very least puts at risk , the chance the TD at Nats kicks you out of the tourney. MD

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Dan you are right in that the State requirement will not change at least for the 2010 season. That doesn't mean it can't be brought up and "argued" at the 2010 National Meeting in the fall.

NSA doesn't penalize you for playing up. NSA will let you play up one age category (example:14u can play up to 16u) If you do win a qualifier at a higher age group you do have to take the berth in the higher age group. Personally I would not see why a coach with a good enough team to play up and win qualifiers would even try to "stay down".

Mike

Statman Ray said:

stop allowing the bid for a state tourney or qualifier go to the same place suspiciously every year even though there have been other deserving place sin the past...both ASA and NSA can learn from that

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Amen, Statman. I like your way of thinking. I have never been so delusional in all my life until after the ASA bidding process....lol Good ole boy club says it best. How can the center of the state get nothing ( Columbus-Pickerington).

I think with the states... now since Ohio is split in half.... there will be two state events (or it at least sounds that way to me) in Ohio. Mike can answer that one.

I think the over the top request is so simple that it is just odd to me there is a problem: DO NOT make the teams that won berths at qualifiers be forced into playing states.

WWolff said:

1) Get rid of the state requirement
2) Lower TD's rates for tournaments. (I guess that is up to john since you did it)
3) Better communication in Northern part of state
4) Don't let A teams play B State and Nationals (Teams that have won 2 or more tournaments) And Shame on coaches that do go to B's knowing how good you are. You know who you are.
JMHO

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Warren: Number #4 is a problem with all the sanctioning bodies. You see it in all of them. I know you know that as well.

Number#1 = I absolutely agree

Mike,

You have taken the first step, by coming here and initiating dialogue, and requesting information. Kudos!

Growing up with NSA in Ohio, we have been reluctant to move to ASA, but we are, gradually ... partly because that is where the "herd" is moving, but mostly because it is more applicable to our player and team interests.

1. BROKEN RECORD - NO STATE REQUIREMENT .... if already properly and duly qualified for NSA Nationals. This alone pushes us away from NSA. Due to fall High School sports, and timing, we are more inclined to go with NSA Nationals. However, at 16u now, we are focused not just on going to quality tournaments, but seeking showcase opportunities for our kids. NSA States gets in the way, and is "a burr under the saddle" if you are already NSA qualified and have some "other fish to fry" ... big fish. No issues with attending the tournament, just being forced to block that date when it may jack the schedule around. Bigger deal now at 16u+ ... for us. It ultimately may force us to drop NSA altogether ..... if we decide to go to a Showcase rather than NSA States, and therefore cannot attend NSA Nationals, then why bother with ANY NSA Qualifiers ... at all?? See the problem?

2. NSA Showcases? - for the older groups it is all about exposure. Please build (re-build) a better relationship with local TD's and College Coaches and provide some NSA sanctioned Showcase events in/near Ohio. Again, more of a priority for the older players, however, when you are younger you start building your plans and traditions around where you see yourself down the road. Goals & Dreams at the upper end, built on Foundation at the lower end.

Those are my two biggest issues, and needs, that come to mind.

Think of it this way, we are going to go to numerous Showcases (Stingrays, GAPSS, Compuware, Orland Park, etc) ... we then have 3-5 other weekends up for grabs for our cash/entertainment value ($1500-2500.00 is going to somebody).

The NSA State requirment is a "monkey wrench" that may seem like a good leverage tool for $375.00, but ultimately it could cost NSA and their partners $2500.00 of our money. Just an example to try to explain my dilemma at 16u now, and the "train of logic."

Thanks for listening. Obviously, the good news for you here is that you are getting comments & feedback, rather than the dreaded "crickets" ..... a good businessman understands that this means interest, and therefore opportunity. Hopefully, an opportunity for us all to further our opportunities, and goals.

I will say one other thing about the state requirement that I dont think I read on here..

Just another reason it does not make sense: If it is a qualifier and you have a certain percentage of your feild already qualified, then you are undoubtedly taking away chances for others to qualify..( taking qualifying chances away does not exactly attract teams????) I would think that NSA would want as many teams to qualify as possible, but you set up the circuit to be counter productive? It can only be looked at as well we cant fill this tounrey if we do not require teams to be here??

Ok I know I was not the 1st person to bring up this topic, but I just wanted to add another thought about it * steps down from soapbox*

OQM just one state in A and B for 2010. Our Zone director had an idea for a potential North and South B with the emphasis on NORTH and SOUTH (ie.Cleveland and Cincinnati) and trying to center the A's up in central Ohio if possible. I myself think that thought (split B's) is a couple of years away from fruition.

I still would like to see one state for A and for B in 2011. The thinking will be to have one (A or B) in the North and one in the South (A or B). Right now with virtually no prescence (yet) in the southern part of the state, Central Ohio becomes the logical place. Berliner is booked during the fourth of July for a men's slowpitch that they have ran for close to 20 years now. Of course their numbers have been in steady decline and that might open fields up in the future. I have some other irons in the fire for locations also in central Ohio.

I appreciate all of the feedback that I have gotten. I was fearful this would turn into a gripe session about Tealtown 08. I understand and am sympathetic to everyone's plight with that weekend. I just want to try to learn from the past so we can move on and get back on track.

Mike

ohioquakerman said:

Amen, Statman. I like your way of thinking. I have never been so delusional in all my life until after the ASA bidding process....lol Good ole boy club says it best. How can the center of the state get nothing ( Columbus-Pickerington).

I think with the states... now since Ohio is split in half.... there will be two state events (or it at least sounds that way to me) in Ohio. Mike can answer that one.

I think the over the top request is so simple that it is just odd to me there is a problem: DO NOT make the teams that won berths at qualifiers be forced into playing states.

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Crush1 said:

I will say one other thing about the state requirement that I dont think I read on here..

Just another reason it does not make sense: If it is a qualifier and you have a certain percentage of your feild already qualified, then you are undoubtedly taking away chances for others to qualify..( taking qualifying chances away does not exactly attract teams????) I would think that NSA would want as many teams to qualify as possible, but you set up the circuit to be counter productive? It can only be looked at as well we cant fill this tounrey if we do not require teams to be here??

Ok I know I was not the 1st person to bring up this topic, but I just wanted to add another thought about it * steps down from soapbox*

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I don't know.. but I think they'd pass the berth down to the next "unqualified" team.
Mike: You might have missed answering this one.

As for the Fourth of July in the Columbus area.... I would venture to guess that since GAPPS moved... they has to be some diamonds available up that way.

"I don't know.. but I think they'd pass the berth down to the next "unqualified" teames,"
yes, but there is not an indefinate number of teams allowed into tourney, so even iof states had 20 spots, and 6, 8 or maybe more were teams already qualified then those spots are taken by qualified teams and others may be left out..

Maybe they have way more spots than that at states and it doesn't matter, but if there is only a certain number of spots then some are taken by teams that are already qualified!! Thats all I was gettin at

OQM nailed it as they would pass down to the next unqualified team.

I see what you are saying Crush. If a State TD is only allowing X amount of teams in the state tournament due to diamond space... then some unqualified teams don't get the chance as the qualified teams are taking up the spots available in the state tournament because they are forced to play states.

I would hope that having each state event age wise in different locations... the amount of teams allowed would not be limited.

The way they did do it before... having all at one location.... I could see that happening

That's a good point Crush.

Our team generally preferred to play NSA because of the use of two EPs.

The last couple of years, however, we found we were playing in fewer, even though we preferred NSA. Here are a couple of things we noticed that related to where we ended up playing:

1. The requirement that there be no other NSA tournaments in the state the week of states meant if we were not going to states (when in was in Columbus in Cincinnati) we either had to play ASA, PONY, or out of state. We actually went to Beaver Falls, PA 2x because of this as we could commute there. I think this has to do with the requirement of having to play in states to go to Nationals.

2. Umpiring has been particularly bad the last two years and worse than what we saw in ASA and PONY. At one PONY tournament I was talking to an umpire who had worked in the OHSAA state championship game the week before and he said he rarely works NSA anymore. I asked him why and he said something about the scheduler for the Northern Ohio area.

3. Last year in Northern Ohio you could find an NSA tournament every weekend; however at least one every week was at Ohio Sports Park, We did not like a place like that at all for a lot of reasons including: high gate fee, no food allowed in, lousy warm-up areas, and no shade. The past few years there did not seem to be as many NSA tournaments at the nice community parks that you found in the past. That may relate to the costs that a number of posters referred to.

4. Besides the two EP rule, NSA has a couple of other things going for it: not mandating who you buy your insurance from, and no ACE requirement.

I agree with most of the posters about the requirement to play in states if you wanted to go to Nationals being a turn-off mostly because it takes away your felixibility. Our team was not interested in going to Nationals so this didn't bother us, but I could see where it would be a turn-off, particulalry if you had to travel a long distance.

Thanks for taking the time to reach out and find out what has been bothering people.

Re: What can NSA do to regain there footing in Ohio?

Mike Craig said:

I have worked three World Series for NSA here locally and we have had several teams play that placed or did well the very next weekend in the ASA Nationals.

Some teams like to play an exclusive ASA schedule, but in states that have a good NSA program we can usually get them to attend our Worlds if the location is convenient for them. The feature of having the worlds in one general area makes it easier on the organization to track the teams progress. I used to watch Jeff Cavanaugh with the Lady Lasers cruise around Berliner Park in a small 4 wheeler watching all of there teams play during Worlds week.

I would like to do at-large berths for a team that plays 2 outdoor qualifiers and states. We have to also look out for our customers who do not field the powerhouse teams.

Mike

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I agree with both of these points wholeheartedly