Mike Craig and NSA...for the kids or a big rip off?

Akadema1 said:

Not to defend anything that has been said. But he or any other org will never make the world of fastpitch/sports happy. No matter what is said or done, there is something that will always be their fault.
If you have 30 teams that play in a tournament 29 will complain about something. The only one you dont hear a peep from is the winner. Generally they walk in griping about something and leave on Sunday even more upset. Heck, its a wonder that any of them put themselves through the misery so your daughter can play.

The other thing that I always get a laugh about is the gate fee. I am certain that most of you paid a cover charge to get in a bar when you were younger and didnt think a thing about it. Yet, when it comes to paying a cover charge to watch your daughter you gripe. Getting drunk vs watching daugther....hmmmmm

Just my opinion.

Now back to the bashing....:lmao:

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To be honest didnt do alot of bar hopping, but more to the point. I do pay to watch my DD play it is the fee to get in the tournament. I understand a gat fee if there is consessions, give aways, college coaches. Just like going to a club as opposed to a corner bar. You go to a "club" you get more. There it was like going to the Dew Drop Inn at the corner that has PBR in a can and a couple port o lets. I dont gripe if the tournament goes the extra mile but it was no different than playing at the neighborhood middle school, oh but you had to pay to get in.

Never went to the bars who charged a cover, and try my best to avoid any tournament with a gate fee. We put on some great tournaments and NEVER charge a gate fee.

We are charged a stiff fee for field use by the city but we eat it to keep the cost down for the teams.

Another crock is charging for parking fees in my opinion. Just another shake down by the Organization putting on the tournament.

Never payed a gate fee or a parking fee in Tipp City, Greenville, Beavercreek, etc and the fields have been awesome!

I am sure some TD's have to do what they have to do but I think we should try to play in the Tourneys who actually try to keep the costs down for the teams.

JMHO

Some pay for fields and some don't as well... so that is why it is hard to judge a TD and gate fees sometimes. Sometimes it's the opposite as well and wonder .

Orgs charge them when they hold their tournaments and I don't see much chatter on that fact in the OFC.

Having run tournaments at both Pickerington sights I can provide a few facts for you.

Both facilities charge $500 per day for the use of their fields. They will prorate the fee if you do not use it for a portion of the day.

Neither facility provides workers to prepare fields. Both have different restrictions on how you can go about bringing the fields back up. The Central fields drain much better than the North fields do.

I will probably never use North again as the fee is the same as Centrals yet the facilities are not the same. Central has restrooms and a concession area and provides the chalk for the fields. North has no restrooms (the TD has to pay for Prot-a-Lets) and has no concession area (TD has to arrange for a trailer from Coke) and North does not provide chalk for the fields.

If the North portion was cancelled and the Central portion was played that is very understandable given the conditions of the two sights. Generally tournaments at the Pickerington facilities are top notch.

Why anyone still plays NSA is beyond me - they can say to forget the Tealtown debacle but for anyone who lived through that weekend I don’t see how you could ever forget what happened there. My team avoids NSA like the plaque!!

Why do teams continue to play N$A???
Tealtown will never be forgotten.

I just hate the fact that Tealtown itself gets a wrongfully bad name in the process. Tealtown did not run the event. I hope people keep focus of that fact about Tealtown and their reps.

Having all age groups at one location for a state tournament that you force feed with "berth requirements" is inexcusable and should be never done again like that again.

classicpride said:

Having run tournaments at both Pickerington sights I can provide a few facts for you.

Both facilities charge $500 per day for the use of their fields. They will prorate the fee if you do not use it for a portion of the day.

Neither facility provides workers to prepare fields. Both have different restrictions on how you can go about bringing the fields back up. The Central fields drain much better than the North fields do.

I will probably never use North again as the fee is the same as Centrals yet the facilities are not the same. Central has restrooms and a concession area and provides the chalk for the fields. North has no restrooms (the TD has to pay for Prot-a-Lets) and has no concession area (TD has to arrange for a trailer from Coke) and North does not provide chalk for the fields.


If the North portion was cancelled and the Central portion was played that is very understandable given the conditions of the two sights. Generally tournaments at the Pickerington facilities are top notch.

Why anyone still plays NSA is beyond me - they can say to forget the Tealtown debacle but for anyone who lived through that weekend I don?t see how you could ever forget what happened there. My team avoids NSA like the plaque!!

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The NSA tourney did have North people work the fields.The 1st week of June tourney,fields crew was there at 6:00 am and had fields drug and lined.Rain hit again and the site director called the tourney.Mike was at Central.Fields would have been playable,maybe a delay.I don't do NSA because I follow the boo-hooing of people about it's a money thing but Mike Craig is a stand up guy and does a good job.Seemed like too hands in the pot for that NSA tourney influenced them calling the North site a wash out.Last year in school ball,2 central Ohio school games played on a tuesday-North was one of them.Central may have the better complex with the over-head nets but North gets the games in when they can.Mike was upset that the North TD cancelled games.

When the Zanesville tourney rained out for us,I should up at North and assisted fields crew on saturday and then assisted Central fields crew on sunday and drug and lined fields between games with Central's JV coach.

People may not like NSA but Mike does everything in his power.

Panther-Tiger said:

The NSA tourney did have North people work the fields.The 1st week of June tourney,fields crew was there at 6:00 am and had fields drug and lined.Rain hit again and the site director called the tourney.Mike was at Central.Fields would have been playable,maybe a delay.I don't do NSA because I follow the boo-hooing of people about it's a money thing but Mike Craig is a stand up guy and does a good job.Seemed like too hands in the pot for that NSA tourney influenced them calling the North site a wash out.Last year in school ball,2 central Ohio school games played on a tuesday-North was one of them.Central may have the better complex with the over-head nets but North gets the games in when they can.Mike was upset that the North TD cancelled games.

When the Zanesville tourney rained out for us,I should up at North and assisted fields crew on saturday and then assisted Central fields crew on sunday and drug and lined fields between games with Central's JV coach.

People may not like NSA but Mike does everything in his power.

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Everything in his power to keep our money. Honestly, I cannot tell you how much money our team spent that weekend for a whopping two games.

All we wanted to do was play ball. Once the 14U tournament was canceled we felt slighted, and when a 'credit' was offered in return, not our money, we felt cheated.

Some one from NSA is pocketing a lot of money for nothing.

A credit does nothing for us as all TD's ask for money in advance and all of our tournaments are paid for.

Do you feel like anyone agrees with you Mike? Do you still feel like you did the right thing? If so, your sense of right is a little off base.

NSA is a crock.

TheRinger said:

If said rainout policy was clearly stated on the registration, then no team has a beef if the policy was followed as written. If you got two games in then you get zero money back. It ****s but you knew about it when you signed up. Now if they canceled fraudulently then you have an issue OR if they changed the policy after you recieved your paper work etc.

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My beef is canceling was the easy way out. The rest of the day was beautiful and with some work they could have resumed play by 11:00 IMO. North was understaffed. It says on the NSA site: Tournament will make every attempt to start and finish the tournament including
use of diamond dry, schedule and site revisions.

No attempt was made for the 14U teams.

The rest of this is directed at Mike:
You did not do your part. 14u's got the shaft and you did not uphold your end by canceling the tournament at 8:37 in the morning. I have never seen a tournament canceled that early.

As for contacting you, I last emailed you a week ago, and then emailed the NSA itself, Mr Hugh Cantrell, and he also has avoided contacting me back.

It isn't about the money at this point. It is about treating people right. It is about doing the right thing. You can't strong arm people into playing in another NSA tournament by offering credits for other NSA tournaments, but you do because it is policy. NSA Policy says you will do your part, and you failed to uphold NSA policy.

Mike, you've had my phone number for weeks as I left it in my original email. You are the guilty party here.

classicpride said:

Why anyone still plays NSA is beyond me

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You can say that again. I thought they had been finished off long ago in Ohio by all of the nonsense. I knew in the year 2000 there were major problems and played NSA afterward only in the rare circumstance it made perfect sense for my team. By about 2007 or so, I can't see where it would ever make sense.

Nothing against Mike Craig, who has been a stand-up guy in my few dealings with him, as the problems were above his head. I can recall in 2003-2006 or so when the NSA State was huge. Are there even 10 teams in it at 16-U and 18-U now? Long live the marketplace!

Tealtown is beginning to be the Alamo, where good teams went to die and a nation will never forget it

Re: Mike Craig and NSA...for the kids or a big rip off?

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Re: Still Going To The NSA World Series ??

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Quote:
Originally Posted by columbusnsa
I had spoken with some of the local umpire group that went down to work states and got pretty much the same stories and was told they will be thinking carefully about how much they work NSA next year between the lines. ?:-[

I sent my own e-mail to our Zone VP asking for an explanation on Monday and have gotten no answer, explanation, or even a "mind your own business" response either. ? I can tell you that I will not be affiliated with the NSA after July 31. I have a commttment to run a slow-pitch last chance tournament on July 26 and after that is finished, so am I with these folks.

I do not claim to be perfect (the lord knows that I am not), but I have tried to learn from my mistakes over the years and run better tournaments in the process, I can not represent an organization that would willfully stick it to its customers like what happened last weekend. If my employer did that (think "Life comes at you fast&quot , we would have so many regulatory agencies come down hard on us and it would be a giant black eye and quite costly for all involved. The worst thing would be that we would lose our customers and with out them, I am unemployed.

I have been involved with the N$A first as a player shortly out of high school since 1985, as an umpire since 1989, as tournament director since 1995 and as an area director since 1998. I was our zone director of the year for 2003 and have hosted over 15 state tournaments, 15 NIT's, 10 regionals, 4 worlds, and have been an age group coordinator for the tournament committee of the last 2 Columbus Fast-Pitch World Series. That is over a 20 year affiliation of some sort and this is like a slow painful divorce, but it has to be done.

Johnnies, how do I have my name changed without losing my links or posts?




This was a response from 2008 after the NSA State Tournament in Tealtown...I thought he was through with NSA.

R.i.p. N$a

Not one team in our org has or will play an NSA event this year. However, I will say that the TDs of any tournament have far more influence on the tournament quality than any sanction letters you attach to the name. Remember Matt Cloud of Fairborn. Those were ASA.

Fairborn was USSSA wasn't it? I know before then.. there were some ASA events in Fairborn.

I just think Tealtown should not have to be swamped forever with a bad rap. They hosted it.. but they didn't run it.

That's not fair to the hard working people there at Tealtown that makes things happen for the rec kids all year long.... girls and boys.

Seems to me like there is a lot of pots calling some kettles black going on here. None of these sanctions are perfect. No tourney is perfect. The weather is hardly perfect. TD's have a LOT of things out of their control unfortunately. Fields are one of the big things. Can't say I totally understand why more effort and preplanning is not put into rain contingencies, but I've never tried to run a tournament and deal with park managers before either.

Never been too impressed with Tealtown the few times I've been there. (Wasn't there for the mess either.) If people still want to pile on about the debacle there, it is hardly fair to give Tealtown a pass on it. The park wants the big tournaments to make money on them, yet fail to provide or arrange the staff required to make it work if you get the slightest rain shower. Plenty of hardworking people in NSA as well trying to do something for the girls too, but that is easily forgotten.

Want to talk about greed? Why does softball put up with these crazy time limits that rarely guarantee a complete game? I've never heard of a BB tourney that schedules a 70 or 75 minute game. Yet it is common in softball and I guess everyone is OK with it. To me, a minumum of 90 minutes is required and the schedules should be a game every 1 + 45. You lose one game per day per field. Will that really break the bank?

Overall point is, today all the bashing is towards NSA. Tomorrow maybe it will be USSSA or ASA. All it takes is a debacle or 2, and the pack will be ready for a lynching. Yet who is going to step up and try to do it better or even volunteer to help those who are trying right now? How about even stepping up and suggesting a better way? I know there are some on here who are doing the hard work, and too many who only want it as they see it and have zero desire to help make it happen.

I've never met Mike, but do you people really believe he is putting up with all that is involved in this to get rich? Hardly, it costs him money, time, grief, lost sleep, stress, etc and if he's not doing it for the kids and trying to make a positive difference, then he is 100% NUTS! Guessing he isn't the NUT around here.

I keep waiting to see some bashing on the Bat Wars/Capital City Showdown. My DD's team didn't even get in a dugout even though they spent many many hours at Berliner (and even the kids who are old enough to drive themselves had to pay the gate fee there since it's per car and not per person). From what I was told, they had 8 people to maintain 30+ diamonds (definitely not prepared for foul weather). Will my DD's team get back the entire $400 or so paid? I seriously doubt it, even though not one expense went out for them since they didn't get a single game. What I loved though is that, even though the mud was 6 inches deep behind home plate - the powers that be wouldn't cancel the games until game time while all the time promising that they were "on schedule"....perhaps that was so they could go ahead a pay the umps that showed up to do the game...who knows. The Sunday games were cancelled at 5:30 am and I was told that people were playing/practicing on Berliner fields on Sunday so were those games cancelled too soon?
This stuff happens all the time. I understand you believe that the 14U games were cancelled too soon and maybe they were or maybe they weren't (our games were at the other fields and we got in a couple of 50 minute games). I don't know how those fields drain and I don't know what their policy is on field maintenance (some facilities don't allow diamond dry as they feel it does harm to the playing surface over time).
My DD's team has played ASA and NSA this year and I can honestly say that I don't see much difference between them (for us - the worst treatment was ASA - Capital City). The TD's do what they can to get the games in, but sometimes their hands are tied by factors that we may not be aware of.
In being realistic - does anyone think that ANY TD in any sanction would make a decision that he/she knows will likely get them blasted out here on OFC unless they felt they had no other options?

ohioquakerman said:

Fairborn was USSSA wasn't it? I know before then.. there were some ASA events in Fairborn.

I just think Tealtown should not have to be swamped forever with a bad rap. They hosted it.. but they didn't run it.

That's not fair to the hard working people there at Tealtown that makes things happen for the rec kids all year long.... girls and boys.

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Fairborn was strictly ASA/USA until bob retired due to health issues and his partner was transfered to DC. Despite seasonal field issues they held huge qualifiers there, After they left and USSSA sold folks a bill of goods the tournies there dried up to nothing.The first USSA guy that was there is still in hiding due to money issues.

Teal town is a still a topic of conversation because it was that poorly ran...... when 10 miles down the road another tourny was pulled off and went thru the same weather conditions........ not to mention the parking lot police at Teal town wouldent even allow you to have coolers for food in the parking lot let alone the park.

You will have complaints against NSA until someone of the higher up wakes up and discovers that no matter how you try to repackage something if its not what the consumer wants, they will go elsewhere ........ mainly having to play NSA States after qualifying for world........ NSA used to hold some realy nice tournaments in Ohio......... would be great to see that again

softball_11 said:

I keep waiting to see some bashing on the Bat Wars/Capital City Showdown. My DD's team didn't even get in a dugout even though they spent many many hours at Berliner (and even the kids who are old enough to drive themselves had to pay the gate fee there since it's per car and not per person). From what I was told, they had 8 people to maintain 30+ diamonds (definitely not prepared for foul weather). Will my DD's team get back the entire $400 or so paid? I seriously doubt it, even though not one expense went out for them since they didn't get a single game. What I loved though is that, even though the mud was 6 inches deep behind home plate - the powers that be wouldn't cancel the games until game time while all the time promising that they were "on schedule"....perhaps that was so they could go ahead a pay the umps that showed up to do the game...who knows. The Sunday games were cancelled at 5:30 am and I was told that people were playing/practicing on Berliner fields on Sunday so were those games cancelled too soon?
This stuff happens all the time. I understand you believe that the 14U games were cancelled too soon and maybe they were or maybe they weren't (our games were at the other fields and we got in a couple of 50 minute games). I don't know how those fields drain and I don't know what their policy is on field maintenance (some facilities don't allow diamond dry as they feel it does harm to the playing surface over time).
My DD's team has played ASA and NSA this year and I can honestly say that I don't see much difference between them (for us - the worst treatment was ASA - Capital City). The TD's do what they can to get the games in, but sometimes their hands are tied by factors that we may not be aware of.
In being realistic - does anyone think that ANY TD in any sanction would make a decision that he/she knows will likely get them blasted out here on OFC unless they felt they had no other options?

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Bill Beckham sent out refunds, cash refunds, last week. He wasn't required to do that and he did, outside of what ASA policy says he has to do.

My beef with NSA includes that NSA officials won't even answer questions about their tournaments or national policies. I know for a fact that despite the "rule" that you have to play states to play the nationals, it was not applied 100%. Some teams went to nationals without playing states. If I remember correctly, that was one of the questions that Johnnies asked them, but he didn't get any response to any of his questions.