Strange advice from coaches

My daughter was at a tryout over the weekend. During the hitting portion, one of the coaches said to her, "You're in 18U now, you don't need to choke up on the bat".

WTH? My daughter's response should have been "I'm in 18U, I think I know where my hands work best on my bat". (But she at least knows when to not say something like that.)

Anyhoo, what are some of the most absurd things you've heard spew from a coaches mouth? Things that make you go "Say What?".........

Why does she choke up? Knobs are on the bat for a reason.

Because, when her Catalyst broke in half - under warranty - all Louisville Slugger had in stock at the time was a bat that was 3 ounces heavier. And we were leaving for Nationals the next week. And I didn't have an extra $300 laying around to buy another bat....... Next question?

coop24 said:

Why does she choke up? Knobs are on the bat for a reason.

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Coop right on....test it yourself Bart, grip the bat by choking up and then gently try to push the bat rearward and you will see the knob move or deflect as the knob can not lock up or bind in the bottom hand.

To control the bat is important and for me it starts with grip. Some of the girls at the Hawks tryout were ask to try this grip and and instantly they started driving the ball farther.

This why we do not use the plastic cap on the knob that supposedly stops the stinging in the hands as it allows the bat to move and just becomes a pivot point.

While you are at it try holding the bat in the back of your top hand and then across the top hand at the index finger pad. Push on the bat and see what happens. Then try it while tracking the ball (head down) and then try it as if looking where the ball is going (head up) and you will feel the difference.

SheriffBart said:

Because, when her Catalyst broke in half - under warranty - all Louisville Slugger had in stock at the time was a bat that was 3 ounces heavier. And we were leaving for Nationals the next week. And I didn't have an extra $300 laying around to buy another bat....... Next question?

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A bat weighing 3 ounces more would have made a difference in her swing and I would have found a parent on the team that would have allowed her to use/ borrow their bat especially at Nationals as other coaches were probably thinking the same thing....why is she choking up :lmao:

Getting back to the original thought:

I believe the absurdity is that the coach was thinking that "You're a big girl now, don't choke up." Instead of maybe asking why.

I've heard many coaches, while certainly meaning to help, just spew out "gems of wisdom" that leave me scratching my head.

I certainly have no problem with telling her not to choke up. I understand the unique situation of uncomfortable equipment but that needs to be addressed and or explained to the coach.

I am sure the coach would assist in finding adaquate equipment to use if approached correctly.

MustangSally said:

Getting back to the original thought:

I believe the absurdity is that the coach was thinking that "You're a big girl now, don't choke up." Instead of maybe asking why.

I've heard many coaches, while certainly meaning to help, just spew out "gems of wisdom" that leave me scratching my head.

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I can not help myself as it is early in the morning....when I see a person on their cell phone and they change lanes or turn, they never use their turn signals and I just have to laugh and think are you just too stupid to use the turn signals or are you just lazy or are you preoccupied and distracted or you need Blue Tooth or the ear piece attachment so you are hands free by using the proper equipment :lmao:

Coop saw it the same way as I did as why would you be using a piece of equipment incorrectly at tryouts and then at Nationals as some coaches would say she does not have a clue. It is like when a parent gets loud about a call on the daughter and the parents go off or make excuses...they just cross their name off as they only need 15 to 18 players and they will find one

I know so little about "teaching" hitting that I rarely try to, even after closely watching my dd be taught by Glenn McCoy for years, and even though I feel VERY comfortable hitting, myself. What I do remember from hitting, whether back in the old days of baseball, men's fastpitch in my 30's, or slow pitch today .... is feeling comfortable and confident, and having a plan.

I went through periods where I went with lighter bats and and attempted to focus on the acceleration & leverage parts for power, gripping at the very end. And I also went through periods where I fcused on the mass part and used a slightly heavier bat, and gripped up about a 1/4-1/2 inch for a better control "fulcrum" in my grip. What I found was each was comfortable after a while and allowed for different effects. I felt VERY good gripping up 1/4 to 1/2 inch a lot, realizing that something is given up in leverage by losing the knob and the full length. Now, I was not swinging for the fence, I was a line drive hitter with good gap power and speed. So, I was willing to give up a small amount of power in return for better bat control and the ability to maneuver my bat slightly better on breaking balls "during" my swing, especially against strong, fast, deceptive pitching.

Just me, but I knew my style, and it worked for me in various levels of ball. I would NEVER say that (OP's issue) to a player trying out, nor think that in 5-10 minutes I know more about this player's approach than she (or her instructors) may know. It would definitely get my attention, and I would look t see why, and how, she is using this "technique" or "style" ...... may also depend on the level of ball that the try-out team plays. If that kid is shooting line drives over the infield, and shows any power at all, then I at least know she knows what she is doing, and it is done with good effect, for a reason. If you are choking up, and clearly giving away leverage and force, then you better be a VERY good contact hitter, with the ability to run fast. And still, the temptation would be there to later change that, possibly, for more power.

Agree with the others that it throws up a red flag, .... but let's see whatcha got?!?

Just my $.02.

Just a thought, but has anyone considered maybe he was testing her ability to listen? Sometimes a coach will throw out some absurb comment just to see if the girl will listen even if she knows it is wrong. Granted we are talking about 18u here, but it is a possibility.
And if she would have responded with "I'm in 18U, I think I know where my hands work best on my bat" you would have gotten a big "thanks for trying out" from me.

Yeah, right. Choking up is a *terrible* way to hit. I mean, Tony Gwynn choked up and he *stunk* as a hitter, right?



Actually, there's an in-depth discussion of choking up at this website:

http://www.thesportjournal.org/arti...times-without-compromising-bat-velocity-and-b

If the link doesn't work, search 'sports journal choke-up derenne' and you'll see it.

So, yes, that 18u remark was an incredibly *stoopid* thing to say to a girl during tryouts.

Which brings up an even more interesting thread topic:

Why does coaching softball attract such complete and utter *buttheads*?

;&

I'm serious. Why does it?

Thats why I do very little to any coaching at tryouts, especially the older they get. There are certain things I'm looking for and if it isn't there I'm not interested.

If I had seen your DD from the right swinging away for the fences, and shes choked up 3 inches on the bat, I'm going to personally ask myself "Why??", may ask her why, but not give my reasoning why it's good or bad. Can't teach an old dog new trick, and getting to old to reinvent the wheel...Thanks for coming to tryouts...Next!!!

Now after tryouts, and your DD is not chosen, and if you cared by asking me why she wasn't chosen, would you be open to my explanation as to why she wasn't picked? The reason I ask is because some parents are upset they don't get a call back to explain what they need to work on, when in reality they wouldn't listen if you told them.

So an 18 year old can't be taught new tricks? Why not? Who's to say she her old tricks were taught properly? If a coach wouldn't try to teach every girl at every age something new, then he or she isn't doing their job. Nobody knows everything or every way of doing things.

I know this was just a tryout, but some of the comments are a bit off..... You think College coaches aren't teaching these kids something??

I've seen coaches say some things at tryouts more or less to get the kid to feel less nervous. I don't care what age they are, they are nervous. Are you not nervous at a job interview? You know what, most of the time it works for those kids, the switch goes on, then they do what they do best....

Hilliarddad3 said:

So an 18 year old can't be taught new tricks? Why not? Who's to say she her old tricks were taught properly? If a coach wouldn't try to teach every girl at every age something new, then he or she isn't doing their job. Nobody knows everything or every way of doing things.

I know this was just a tryout, but some of the comments are a bit off..... You think College coaches aren't teaching these kids something??

I've seen coaches say some things at tryouts more or less to get the kid to feel less nervous. I don't care what age they are, they are nervous. Are you not nervous at a job interview? You know what, most of the time it works for those kids, the switch goes on, then they do what they do best....

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Agreed, but were talking tryouts which is about evaluating players not reteaching them. If were talking 18U and they have a bad habit the time doesn't outweigh the reward. A different animal at the younger levels when they have some athleticism and a willingness to learn and the time to correct it. I as an 18U coach am not going to take on a project player on a higher level team because I won't spend enough time with that athlete over the course of a season to correct it. Not fair to them or my team.

brineyman said:

Actually, there's an in-depth discussion of choking up at this website:

http://www.thesportjournal.org/arti...times-without-compromising-bat-velocity-and-b

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Interesting study. I wonder what the significance of the shorter stride is to increased accuracy and bat speed?

It is interesting to note that the exit velocity of the batted ball is 10% slower. Good data.

I would like to see the data with hitters not experienced with choking-up on the bat as a comparison.

As a hitting coach, I observe during tryouts and give my advice to those that make the decision to pick the kid. I'm not there to try to fix a swing. Agree 100% with Lady Knights. I can tell if a kid can hit or not and if we can fix the swing. The issue you have is parents and kids that think they are correct and won't correct the flaw. So during tryouts is not the time to figure out who those kids and parents are. I give advice if asked. It is very easy to tell those that work with a hitting instructor and those that don't. I do shake my head when I see the kid with an RT chocked up and they have no idea why the bat is designed with the knob being small.

Listen, I don't like when players choke up either, but to put a player down or to say she is nothing more than a project is painting with a pretty broad brush. Would you consider Barry Bonds or Pete Rose to be projects with bad habits. Just because it's not what you do doesn't mean it's wrong. Same goes with pitching. There have been plenty of successful pitchers that learn from Hillhouse and learn from others.

brineyman said:

Yeah, right. Choking up is a *terrible* way to hit. I mean, Tony Gwynn choked up and he *stunk* as a hitter, right?



Actually, there's an in-depth discussion of choking up at this website:

http://www.thesportjournal.org/arti...times-without-compromising-bat-velocity-and-b

If the link doesn't work, search 'sports journal choke-up derenne' and you'll see it.

So, yes, that 18u remark was an incredibly *stoopid* thing to say to a girl during tryouts.

Which brings up an even more interesting thread topic:

Why does coaching softball attract such complete and utter *buttheads*?

;&

I'm serious. Why does it?

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Good information on a baseball bat swing using baseball bats.

I may be incorrect that a softball bat can not be modified in the grip area as can baseball bats such as tapering the knob or modifying the grip area.

If you look at the Rocket Tech it is the only bat I think that has a smaller knob and I believe it is patented so it fits into the girls hands better.
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Bahill was probably the one who did the most work on reducing softball bats weight to allow for the quicker swing speeds and many of the older players were using heavier bats as he pointed out in his book, Keep Your Eye on the Ball from around 1999. The school that benefited the most was Arizona as that is where he was teaching.

Because of the ability to change the weight of the bat, end loaded verses balanced and the composite material many things were changed as to female softball and these factors can not be brought into baseball. Yes they even cupped the end of the bat and yes made the handle thinner however over all being able to wait on a pitch longer and MOI of the bat truly is an advantage to any player.

Also factor in the female shoulder is narrower and rounded and the male shoulder is wider allowing for a tighter hand path however breast size and the elbow in some cases having to be a little further away makes a little difference also depending on each girl.

Now lets add in carrying angle that the female has and the playing field is no longer level in my opinion and yes it all makes a difference compared to how the male swings and that includes center of gravity and glutes not firing the knee for the female as that is a learned skill verses a male.

Ask yourself why the female tends to land on the lead foot flatter and then look at the female foot and observe the foot is wider in the toe area and narrower in the heel area and this makes a difference in static and dynamic balance as we stride to touch or being quick to turn on the ball. Then factor in the glutes do not fire in the female and so weight shift must be taught for throwing and hitting or they tend to be all upper body.

Now add in the ham string muscles are not as strong verses the male whose ratio is more in tune to the narrower hips verses the female wide hip.

Also look at the studies that have been done on knee and shoulder and ankles of male verses female and you may be surprised of the differences in injury rate that the female incurs.

Choking up for the female is a little different in my opinion and the bats are most certainly an issue.

Additionally, it always amazes me when a few elite MLB players are said to have been successful at some aspect of the game doing something most athletes can not do and then consider there are about 800 plus players at that level actually being able to do it and then how many in the minor league levels what to make it to the show and never make it trying to emulate their hero.

Yelling it out was not proper however asking would you try it this way or that way may have helped her and who knows if would have made a difference.

brineyman said:

Why does coaching softball attract such complete and utter *buttheads*?

;&

I'm serious. Why does it?

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It is hardly limited to softball. (not to say this one comment labels this coach a butthead in my mind) Ever been on the sidelines at a youth football game or even worse a wrestling tournament? Whew!

Not to take anything away from some of the fantastic coaches I have observed in those sports, no doubt they know exactly what I mean. Like anything else, the bad apples stand out. (for all the wrong reasons)

Back to the original question, not having been there for the comment, maybe it was an attempt to inject some levity into a legit question along the lines of what Hilliarddad is saying. She's a big girl now and can take it.

ExxWhy said:

It is hardly limited to softball. (not to say this one comment labels this coach a butthead in my mind) Ever been on the sidelines at a youth football game or even worse a wrestling tournament? Whew!

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Agreed.

ExxWhy said:

Not to take anything away from some of the fantastic coaches I have observed in those sports, no doubt they know exactly what I mean. Like anything else, the bad apples stand out. (for all the wrong reasons)

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Agreed again. The bad apples are not at all hard to locate.

ExxWhy said:

Back to the original question, not having been there for the comment, maybe it was an attempt to inject some levity into a legit question along the lines of what Hilliarddad is saying. She's a big girl now and can take it.

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I'll concede your point. But considering it *was* a tryout and the coach apparently did not know the player, I wouldn't think that teasing a player about her hitting style is all that funny.