4 Outs in an inning

[backstop09]

This happened yesterday in a game while I was keeping the visiting team book. Home team up. 1 out, runner on first. Batter strikes out (should be 2 outs at this point but more about that later) and runner steals second. Throw goes into center field and past the center fielder. Run scores. Next batter up gets a hit. Next one walks. Next one strikes out. This should be the third out but due to my focus being on the runner scrambling home I did not record the real second out in the book. I record this strikeout as out #2. Next girl up walks then the next one strikes out for what really was the 4th out. In my confusion, I had it as the 3rd out. The umpires and the scoreboard both thought it was the third. Based on conversations that were overheard, the home team knew better but kept quiet.

Fortunately there was no real harm, because no runs scored. The home team top of the order came up earlier than they should have but no one scored. In yesterday's situation, the umpires were made aware of the issue before the home team batted in the next inning and they said it was too late to correct anything. They also said it was not their job to keep track of outs.

I had never had this happen before but I want to be ready in case it happens again. What is the remedy when it is discovered that there are really 3 outs and not 2? Does it matter when it is discovered? Say the home team had sent 5 girls to the plate and scored 2 runs after the real 3rd out but before what the umpires and visiting book thought was the 3rd out. Can the situation be corrected and how is this done? Can the situation be corrected after what the umpires and visiting book thought was the 3rd out but was really the 4th out?

 

[BretMan2]

If it can be determined (verified by both books getting together) that there really were three outs, when you though there were two, then anything that happened after that point is moot. The correction would be to wipe out everything that happened between the third and fourth out, then continue the game as if the third out was properly recorded when it actually happened.

Doing otherwise would be a gross violation of the playing rules (ie: giving a team four outs in their half-inning). Just because the scorekeepers/coaches/players/fans/umpires think there are only two outs, that wouldn't change the fact that in reality there were three outs.

 

[backstop09]

If it can be determined (verified by both books getting together) that there really were three outs, instead of two, then anything that happened after that point is moot. The correction would be to wipe out everything that happened between the third and fourth out, then continue the game as if the third out was properly recorded when it actually happened.

Doing otherwise would be a gross violation of the playing rules (ie: giving a team four outs in their half-inning). Just because the scorekeepers/coaches/players/fans/umpires think there are only two outs, that wouldn't change the fact that in reality there were three outs.

Thank you for the input. At what point can this correction be done? It was discovered by the visiting team during our at bat in the top half of the inning and brought to the attention of the umpires before the home team came to bat before they came to bat in the next inning after all of this happened. I assumed that nothing could be done after the home team started batting again but it seemed simple enough to fix it before they started batting and the umpire said it was too late.

 

[coachjwb]

Did the umpires really say it's not their job to keep track of outs??

 

[backstop09]

Words were straight out of the base umpire's mouth and I was like

View attachment 562

 

[AndrewGeorge]

I had an umpire tell me that exact same thing in an issue I posted about earlier this week.

 

[BretMan2]

Hmmm...if umpires aren't responsible for keeping track of outs, then how do they know when the infield fly is in effect or when a batter can run on a dropped third strike? They better know how many outs there are if they want to apply those rules correctly!

I can see an umpire telling you that they aren't responsible for stopping a team from doing something stupid, like running off the field during a live ball when there are only two outs, thinking there are three. In those cases, it's the fault of the team. If runners keep advancing because the defense ran off the field, or runners run into the dugout and put themselves out, that's their own fault and whatever happens is on them.

Back to the original post...

You aren't going to find a rule in the rule book that says, "This is what you do when nobody realizes there are three outs and keeps on batting". The assumption of the rules is that between the two teams, their scorekeepers, the coaches and the umpires, somebody is going to be able to keep track of the number of outs.

It could be considered as "a point not covered by the rules". That gives the umpires some discretion on how to handle it. I don't think it would be the same as a protest situation, where you have to address it before the next pitch. Protests involve an umpire misinterpreting a rule. The problem here wasn't that a rule was misinterpreted. That is, the umpires didn't make an official ruling that you get four outs in an inning. They just messed up and missed it.

I would allow this to be corrected up until the team came up to bat again and their first batter completed an at-bat. After that point, if anyone brought it up that they had four outs their previous at-bat I'd tell them it was too late to do anything about it. Before that point, I'd negate the "extra" at-bats from the previous inning and resume the batting order where it should be.

 

[dmcdaniel]

I am with BretMan.. Common sense would dictate that this be corrected and anything between out 3 and out 4 is negated (as if it didn't happen). I also agree with when and how it would be corrected. Well said BretMan...

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I would allow this to be corrected up until the team came up to bat again and their first batter completed an at-bat. After that point, if anyone brought it up that they had four outs their previous at-bat I'd tell them it was too late to do anything about it. Before that point, I'd negate the "extra" at-bats from the previous inning and resume the batting order where it should be.

How about a BOO appeal after the first batter and before a pitch to the next batter?

 

[BretMan2]

How about a BOO appeal after the first batter and before a pitch to the next batter?

I considered that as one possibility when I was thinking this one over. But I don't think that I'd go that route if things were never "officially" resolved from the previous inning.

 

[backstop09]

Help, please - "BOO appeal"???

 

[BretMan2]

Batting Out of Order