Pitching and Pitchers Discussion 8 pitchers in two games - all called with illegal pitches

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This is a first in so many ways. We were entering the dugout after an 18U game (at the Stingrays tournament) when the coaches from the Sapphires warned us that the field umpire called over 30 illegal pitches on 5 different pitchers during the game. At first, I passed it off, but it did not take long to see that they were telling the truth.

Before the 2nd game was over, 3 more pitchers were called with "illegal" pitches making it a total of "8 PITCHERS IN 2 GAMES THAT WERE CALLED FOR ILLEGAL PITCHES". From what I was told, the "illegal pitches" in the 18U game ended up deciding the game. Note - two of these 18U pitchers were all Ohio pitchers.

I have coached my pitcher for 3 years and this is the first time that she has ever had "illegal" pitch called. I have been around long enough to know what an illegal pitch is (you have to trust me on this). Toe dragging, according to the field ump, was an illegal pitch.

I want to give a thumbs up to the Ohio Wave coach, Rich. He walked over to our dugout and told me, the coaches and our pitcher, that he was with us all the way with our contention against the field ump. He was also disgusted with the obvious attempt of the umpire to make the game about "him". Rich, I thank you. I know we may have had our differences in the past but I appreciate what you did today and the class your coaches and team showed when our pitcher was hit by a batted ball and a pitch. We could tell your pitcher felt bad about the hit batter, that is why my assistant took the time to assure her that we knew it was not intentional. She is an exceptional young lady.

Folks, if my pitcher was delivering an illegal pitch - I would never, ever complain. I know what is an illegal pitch (after 8 yrs in FP softball, I should) That was not the case today.

I left the Stingrayt tournament with a sour stomach. I will say this - I will not put my team on the field if this umpire is assigned to any future game. I will be sending the Stingrays officials an official complaint. This guy should NEVER officiate a major venue -ever. He was that bad.

 

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Re: 8 pithers in two games - all called with illegal piitches

My daughter plays for the saphires. The only correction I have to make is that there was only 3 pitchers in our game, but the rest are facts! After 6 years of travel ball, I can actually say this umpire was the worst umpire I have ever seen. He DID make it about him. I know this was a college showcase, but I did not know the umpires where auditioning for the BIG leagues. Not only did he like calling illegal pitches (after the ball was in the catchers mitt and called a strike..not as the pitch was being delivered) but he did not have a clue on the field either.. missing calls from the very first play. I thought that the home plate umpire was suppose to control the game. He was clueless too. After the first 10 illegal pitches and both teams questioning the calls, he should have discussed it with is partner so the girls could play ball! My daughter asked the plate umpire during the game what our pitcher was doing wrong and he said he did not know, and she should discuss it with his partner. It is SAD that this had to happen! The ASA should ask to see the scorebooks for all the games this guy had this weekend and see how many illegal pitches he has called. Then they should actually help him understand what a crow hop, replant, and illegal pitch is. I have always been told that as long as the girls is making the effort to drag her toe, then it is legal. Both starting pitchers of the Saphire/Stingray game attempted to drag their toe. I was looking forward to two very good teams battle..but instead we left very upset that an idiot took the game out of the girls' hands.

 

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Re: 8 pithers in two games - all called with illegal piitches

Wow.

 

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Re: 8 pithers in two games - all called with illegal piitches

I asked the home plate umpire the same. He game me an apologetic (disgusted) look and told me that I would have totake it up with the field umpire. (No game management here). He did "shake his head in disgust" when the field umpire continually called "illegal" pitches, but he did not have the fortitude to discuss the issues with his partner.

Like I said, I will not play a game this guy is on the field -EVER.

 

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Re: 8 pithers in two games - all called with illegal piitches

Any additional details/specifics concerning the "illegal" pitches? Has this umpire been around the block? Also, does this umpire have a reputation for controlling the game in this fashion?

Not everyone involved in the game of softball does it for the girls.

 

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Yes to both questions. This umpires brother is reported to one of the best in Ohio. He just doesn't measure up and it shows in the game. Those who know me know that I do not generally complain about the blues. This is the second time I have complained, the previous time pales in comparison.

 

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Unreal...I can say this much... it wasn't one of my games!

Anytime an umpire calls an illegal pitch, two things should be certain:

1) The umpire should be 100% sure that he saw the infraction.

2) The umpire should be able to tell the coach exactly why the illegal pitch was called.

Illegal pitches are always a controversial subject. We get lots of complaints that we don't call them and we get lots of complaints when we do! I did not see the games in question and can't really comment on whether or not the calls had any merit. But if the umpire was adhering to the above two points it might have cleared up some of the confusion.

Now, I have an admission to make. Most of the games I worked at the Stingray's tournament were in the 18U division. One particular game had two pitchers (I won't name teams), one from each team, where technically one was probably illegal on every pitch and the other was on about half of them. These were borderline infractions, perhaps minor enough that the spectators and coaches weren't picking it up. I talked with the plate umpire after the game and he sad that he wasn't seeing it!

I noticed it the first time each pitcher threw a pitch, then kept an eye on it to make sure of what I was seeing. What was going through my mind was, "Man, if I call every one of these we are going to be in for a looong afternoon!".

Call it, and inevitably you have an angry coach and a lengthy delay of the game to explain things ("How can you call that, Blue- she's never been called for that before!"). Don't call it, and you run the risk of of the other coach coming unglued for not calling it ("How can you not see that, Blue!").

So I didn't call it. There...I feel better for getting that off my chest!

And do you know what the reaction was from the teams? Not a peep. Not one person said one word about either pitcher's minor delivery problem. We had an enjoyable, well-played game that was decided by hitting and defense. In fact, the team whose pitcher was "more illegal" lost the game.

Here are the infractions that I observed:

- One pitcher would allow her pivot foot to become airbourne, perhaps 2-3 inches above the ground while striding forward. The pivot foot was not re-planting or pushing off from a point in front of the rubber. Instead of dragging, it was getting a little air under it. This could be called as a leap, since for a fraction of a second both of her feet would be off the ground.

- The other pitcher, right before striding forward, would turn her pivot foot sideways. That in itself is okay, but about half the time her pivot foot would lose contact with the rubber and be perhaps 1-2 inches off the front of it as she delivered the pitch. This could be called as a crow hop, since her pivot foot was pushing off from a spot in front of the pitcher's plate.

Had one of the coaches complained, it probably would have forced my hand and we would have gone down the road of delays, explanations, angry coaches and fans. At least on this day and for this game nobody complained, the pitchers might have gotten away with a little bit extra and we just played softball.

 

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johnnies I was generally frustrated for both teams and I thought that there was no need at all for the calls that were made to be made. Last weekend at GAPSS our two teams played a fantasitic game and the same two pitchers pitched without incident the I'm sure if there was actually an issue it would have been noticed there as well. If what was being called was actually an illegal pitch then 95% of pitchers at this weekends tournament have to start over.

BTW how is your pitcher doing? She not only had to deal with those issues but getting hit in the head and by a pitch made for a real trying day for her. Awesome kid with great talent, she deserved better today.

I heard your assitant coach say that you guys have next weekend off. Mend those wounds and get ready for the final push, you guys will be tough down the stretch.

 

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Wow, we had terrible umpires this weekend in one game (different tournament) that were game changing calls. They were not even close calls--they were easy routine calls that were missed, and there were tons of them. Even the spectators not involved with the teams playing were making comments on the bad calls, and it wasn't just a couple bad calls.

I have often wondered what type of accountability an umpire has once they have passed their test. Now with the illegal pitch scenario, I wonder it even more.

 

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We too had an issue with the umpire. Our team had gone down 2 - 0, but they rallied to take the lead 3-2 in the top of the inning. Our starting pitcher allowed two runners to get on (2nd and 3rd, no outs). Our coach entered a new pitcher. On her first pitch, one of the fans from the other team yelled at the field umpire that she was pitching illegal. The next pitch, the umpire called an illegal pitch and the tying run scored and the winning run was moved to 3rd. The very next pitch, the umpire called his second illegal pitch and the go ahead run scored. The umpire called a 3rd illegal pitch and the lightening came. There was a minute left on the clock when it was stopped. I am not a softball umpire, but I am a basketball official. I know they hammer us about preventive officiating. There was no preventive officiating. I felt that the umpire should have gone to our coach and let him know that he had a concern about her delivery. The coach then could have taken action to stop the illegal delivery or should I say a phantom illegal delivery. This official made the cardinal sin of officiating and that is; he made the game about him. It is very possible that our team would've lost, but it would have been great to see if they could have held them. Our pitcher eventually struck out the next batter (even after three illegal pitches). Our coach went out to ask the umpire what his pitcher was doing wrong, and he said she was stepping back. The rubbers had been moved back and forth between 40 and 43 feet. The coach tried to show him the crater behind the rubber, but the umpire would not listen. I agree with everyone else that the home plate umpire should have taken charge. After three illegal pitches, he never came out from behind the plate. He never went to the other umpire to inquire about the calls he was making. It seems everywhere we go the umpiring has been terrible this year.

 

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Rich,

She is sore, I am sure, but she is one tough cookie. If push was to come to shove, she would take the mound again in a heartbeat. I am very proud of her. She is like one of my own. She is an amazing young lady. It is really a shame that any umpire was to take it upon him or herself to be a part of the game instead of managing the game. I stand by my statement, you, your coaching staff, parents and your team showed 100% class. My team and my pitcher have nothing but gratitude and respect. We will rest, we will mend and we will play on.

Thank you.

 

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Bretman,

I would like for you to see my pitcher in question. I will be willing to bet my house that you will walk away saying "How in the hell did he think that was an illegal pitch". I know the difference. I have been around too long to not know the difference.

 

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Bretman.....question for you on this topic.

There are pitchers who, when throwing certain drops, curves, etc, inevitably hold onto the ball a fraction of a second longer that fb, rise, or peel drop. Therefore, the back "drag foot" has now repositioned itself and it may appear to replant. Do you ever say anything when this happens, or do you understand it is the nature of the pitch that the ball is held a bit longer with no intentional replanting?

 

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Rich, girls and Ohio Wave fans,
I talked with this young ladie's father this evening and he described the game and calls to me. He also pointed out that you, your team, and the parents were cheering for her in the midst of this man's personal ego trip. This is what the game is about! So often teams want to get into a pitcher's head and hope she falls apart. But your team and fans were encouraging her to push through. This showed respect and was above all C L A S S Y ! ! ! ! !

 

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Mardee, I totally agree.

 

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Bretman.....question for you on this topic.

There are pitchers who, when throwing certain drops, curves, etc, inevitably hold onto the ball a fraction of a second longer that fb, rise, or peel drop. Therefore, the back "drag foot" has now repositioned itself and it may appear to replant. Do you ever say anything when this happens, or do you understand it is the nature of the pitch that the ball is held a bit longer with no intentional replanting?

If I'm picturing this correctly, the front/stride foot would have already landed. Once that foot is on the ground, the rear/pivot foot can pretty much go wherever it goes without any problem.

Then again, maybe I'm not picturing it correctly!

 

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Johnnies,

At any point through all of this, did the umpire calling the illegal pitches ever give an explanation of why he was calling them?

If an umpire calls an IP, he should be prepared to give an explanation of exactly why it was called and his explanation should be based on some actual printed rule.

I almost wish that I could have been watching this game, because we'll probably never see one like it again!

 

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I can tell you our coach went to him twice. All he said is it was a crow hop. Then he said the same thing to the Stingrays coaches.
I can see one being called from time to time at this level. But when he called every pitch it was out of hand.
Again..I would ask that his record be checked as an umpire. Guys like him are not good for the game, because they make it about them and not the girls.

 

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This is becoming a growing problem this summer. More and more of the central district umpires seem to want to be the game instead of being the facilitator of the game. They need to understand that the game is suppose to be about the kids and not them. Been around the game for 17 years and feel that if this is not addressed soon it will begin to degrade the game as we know it. I also umpired for 10 years and always made it my job to slip and and slip out of a game without ever being noticed. There is no reason for the umps to bring attention to themselves. Had one game this year where the umpire called an illegal on the first pitch and changed the whole temperment of the game.

My team was coming on after the game in question here and I witnessed many of these illegal pitch calls and can say that I saw nothing illegal about the pitches. These kinds of calls ruin the game for the kids and parents. There is an emphasis on calling illegal pitches and I am all for it if it is indeed illegal but these were not illegal pitches. The UIC was called to the game and observed these calls - what was her take on it? I did nto see her leave her golf cart while I was there.

 

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I will say I agree with the officiating in Columbus being poor. We were there 3 weeks ago and I saw some VERY poor calls and umps trying to entertain!!!

Now we were on the good side of many of the poor calls so it is not sour grapes. Had some against us also.

Girl stealing third, slides into bag with 3rd baseman receiving ball ump goes out yells OUUUUUUUUUUUUT make long sweeping circle dance (maybe10feet in diameter) turning back to play all the time ball is lying on the ground! Talk about being center of attention!!
Refused to ask for help. Field ump said later he was sorry but nothing he could do.

Our coaches left Columbus saying they were never going to compain about our home umps again.