Advantage or Cheating?

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I watched a video of an 18U elimination game at a major championship. Whenever team "A" had a runner on 2nd base they were blatantly tipping the batter to pitch location (when I say blatant, I mean doing everything short of holding up a sign).

I was shocked! I know it happens but really????

I'm a pretty quiet guy but had I been the coach of team "B" I think I would have had to respond....

 

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Happens all the time. That is where the catcher can really play with the hitter and baserunners minds. Don't say anything - use it to your advantage!!

backintheday the pitchers took care of that by coming hard inside on the next pitch. If it continued the next one went straight for the players backside. Plunking someone had a meaning then. Don't see that as much anymore.

 

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Just part of the game

 

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That's why you change up the signs with a runner on 2nd

 

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There are more subtle ways of doing this than blatantly advertising from 2nd base where the catcher is setting up. This happens all the time especially at the higher levels. When the competition gets so strong that the first one to make a mistake loses the game it is common place.

You see the same thing from a batter that fakes a bunt and just wiggles the bat to make a distraction, or a runner rounding the bag clapping her hands trying to distract a defender.

Its a game of inches and momentum, the higher the level you get the harder it is to get that inch or achieve that momentum. Its just aggressive play. Normally the problem arises when a dominant team does it to a lesser team. You never hear the complaint when two stud teams square off.

Tim

 

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It's been going on for years.

All you need to do is have a sign that the catcher gives to the pitcher that indicates, for example, "I'm going to set up high and inside, but I want the pitch low and outside"... Do this at random intervals, and the other team will stop trying.

 

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Saw this in the college ws final between fla and asu....the hitter from fla new every pitch coming and still couldn't touch it.

 

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I love it when they focus on us instead of the real things in what they should be doing... and for the record its part of the game.

Annoys me just like the teams that slap their gloves on the ground before every pitch. Keep it up, use your energy up...

 

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Agree it's part of the game, and in most cases that I've seen it really doesn't provide much of an advantage IMHO. Let em have at it. If it's really a big deal the signs need modified to make it more difficult.

 

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I love it when they focus on us instead of the real things in what they should be doing... and for the record its part of the game.

Annoys me just like the teams that slap their gloves on the ground before every pitch. Keep it up, use your energy up...

Les, you just gave me a flashback to a team we played last year at Stingrays. Let me remind you, it was VERY HOT at Stingrays. This was like the fourth game of the day. The team's routine was on every pitch, all the IF would come into the circle, take the pitch sign, and then sprint to their positions. All I could think about was the marginal benefit of knowing the pitch call/trying to intimidate versus the expenditure of energy in that god awful heat. The tactic didn't contribute anything in their loss against us.

 

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Just have the catcher set up outside and then have the pitcher throw three balls inside hip high. Then the catcher shakes her head and says, "sheesh, she ain't anywhere near her target today! I don't know where its going."

 

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It is part of the game. I love it when they steal signs and then try to relay them it to the batter.

Let her indicate the location and then actually throw it there maybe a little off the plate but reinforce that the runner has a key, maybe even complain about it to the ump...... We have a sign for 'opposite' that we flip to with a signal and then fastball becomes a CU, a drop a curve, a screw a curve. In becomes out etc....

So now the runner indicates an outside curve ball, the catcher sets up outside, the batter adjusts and the screw is thrown inside. So who has the advantage now?

Remember that a runner is just a guest at second and is a long way from home. She can't act up while visiting and expect the war to pass her by. A little high heat will be in order if not for her perhaps a teammate.

 

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I think it can be more of a distraction at times for batter. Focusing on runner instead of pitcher and may not see ball released.

 

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Advantage. It's part of the game. Pitchers should practice hitting spots without the catcher setting up until the pitch is getting ready to come. By that point, I would love if the opposing batter were still focusing on their own runner on second feeding them info instead of the pitch coming in seconds.

Its all part of the game.

JMO

 

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I don't allow my teams to blatantly do this, but I have given up in general on this. I am too old school in my beliefs of what is bush league and what isn't. Most of the softball world disagrees, so I have thrown up the white flag and refuse to let myself get upset when I see this or other teams breaking what I consider to be the unwritten rules.

I agree with the various responses about setting up in one place and throwing to another and all of that. The defensive team can use this to its advantage and it will stop this practice pretty quickly.

 

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You still have to hit the ball.

I wonder how many times it actually helps or hurts the batter. We all know the pitch strategies anyway when there is a runner on 2nd and 1 out, or 2 out, etc.

most of the time with a runner on 2nd, you want it to be hit to 3rd, and any trained batter knows what pitch to expect. the runner out there at 2nd base making a fool of themselves waving like that can be a distraction.

 

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Maybe the runner at 2nd is doing all of this to attract the attention of the opposing coach and get them to worry about the runner rather than their own pitcher and defense. From the number of coaches that are so worried about it, I would say that appears to be happening (even if it is not the intent of the runner).

 

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Went through that in a tourny last yr. My daughter was catching and the first runner they got on second was stealing the signs. She (my daughter) has been taught to walk out to the mound and call three different pitches after she returns to the plate. Only her and the pitcher knows which pitch to throw. Your catcher needs to step up and change things up a bit. Throw the runners off, and keep em guessing! Good luck!

 

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All is fair in love, war, and a softball game. One of the biggest/successful strategies in WWII was using deception to get the Nazis to believe one thing and then we did another.

 

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Advantage. It's part of the game.

Now that all depends on which side of the ball your on. In my case, about 4 or 5 years ago when I was playing Travel Ball, we were facing probably the best pitcher and hardest throwing pitcher in Ohio at the time, I was on 2nd the first time and was giving our hitter direction as to where location may have been. The 2nd time I was on 2nd in this game, I was continuing to do the same thing. The catcher called time and talked to the pitcher. The very next pitch was a fastball right into our hitters stomach/ribcage area. As the pitcher got the ball back, she walked back to the circle glaring at me and said.."Did your hitter get that location....I'll bet not".