Illegal Pitch But Not Gaining An Advantage

[fastjay]

had an interesting one this past weekend...14U tournament under MHSAA rules. pitcher was clearly leaping (drag foot leaving the ground). here's the scenario:

me: pardon me, blue. i believe the opposing pitcher is leaping. can you take a look?
field umpire: sure

next inning after a clear leap, i look at him, he looks at me and says, 'she's not gaining an advantage'. i then call time for further discussion. i ask him, 'so you agree that she's leaping?'. he replies, 'yes, but she's not gaining an advantage so i'm not going to call it.

i asked him, 'you can choose NOT to call IP on that?'. he says, 'yes'.

end of discussion. we were winning big so at that point i was just curious.

can he do this, i.e. choose not call IP because it's not giving her an advantage? i recall some verbiage in the rule book about that.


so that's my first question. my second, which never came up with the ump because i didn't want to muddy the water, was that there was a sizeable pit in front of the pitchers plate. probably 2-3 inches deep. i would imagine if the surface were flat, the pitcher's back foot would not have left the ground, but i'm speculating. does this come into the equation? i thought there was some verbiage about this in the rules as well.

thanks!

 

[BretMan2]

All umpires should drop the "she's not gaining an advantage" excuse from their vocabulary. It's not a rule, it's not in the rule book, and it's not something we're instructed to make a decision about.

If you see an illegal pitch, call it. The "gaining an advantage" thing is just an old rule myth that won't go away and die. It gets repeated over and over until enough people think it's true. And, unfortunately, even some umpires do, too.

For the second part of the question...Yes, this does come into the equation!

If there's a hole in front of the pitcher's plate, the foot may drag away parallel to the ground and lose contact with the ground. If it would have stayed on the ground except for the hole, this is NOT illegal. Additionally, an umpire might add a bit of tolerance for the height of the pitcher's plate, if it isn't flush with the ground (not many are, but a properly installed plate should be).

 

[fastjay]

much obliged, bret!

 

[SonicMojo]

It also begs the question "How does he know she's not 'gaining an advantage'"?

Did he have a radar gun to determine there is not difference in speed when she leaps vs. when she doesn't (there usually is a difference--that's why it's illegal!)?
What if the other pitcher had the same problem but spent numerous hours of practice time correcting her delivery, and the illegal pitcher, instead of fixing her delivery spent those same hours improving her swing. Is that not an advantage?

 

[backstop09]

had an interesting one this past weekend...14U tournament under MHSAA rules. pitcher was clearly leaping (drag foot leaving the ground). here's the scenario:

me: pardon me, blue. i believe the opposing pitcher is leaping. can you take a look?
field umpire: sure

next inning after a clear leap, i look at him, he looks at me and says, 'she's not gaining an advantage'. i then call time for further discussion. i ask him, 'so you agree that she's leaping?'. he replies, 'yes, but she's not gaining an advantage so i'm not going to call it.

i asked him, 'you can choose NOT to call IP on that?'. he says, 'yes'.

end of discussion. we were winning big so at that point i was just curious.

can he do this, i.e. choose not call IP because it's not giving her an advantage? i recall some verbiage in the rule book about that.


so that's my first question. my second, which never came up with the ump because i didn't want to muddy the water, was that there was a sizeable pit in front of the pitchers plate. probably 2-3 inches deep. i would imagine if the surface were flat, the pitcher's back foot would not have left the ground, but i'm speculating. does this come into the equation? i thought there was some verbiage about this in the rules as well.

thanks!

I wasn't there to see it, but based on what you described I'm not surprised you didn't get an illegal pitch called. On one hand, you say there was a "clear leap". Later in your post you say there was a " 2-3" hole" in front of the plate and if it had been filled her foot probably would not have left the ground. I've seen many leaps and what you described doesn't sound like one. Instead of telling you "she's not gaining an advantage", the umpire really should have explained that there's a depression in front of the plate and in his opinion she's not illegal because of that.

 

[OH Scrappers]

While I agree 100% that if the IP is causing a team to win or lose that it needs to be called, I just believe that in certain situations in doesn't need to be called. In the OP it is stated that you were winning big, maybe that is why there was no call. For example last year we played a team whose pitcher got hurt and they did not have another. They used a young lady who had pitched in the past. Every pitch she threw was illegal, every pitch should have been called IP. But even throwing illegal, she wasn't getting it over the plate. I just think that in certain cases you play by the play book and not always the rule book. Now had you been in a tight game I am 100% behind you that the IP should have been called.