ASA Tournament ASA National Qualifier, Canton Oh. June 25th-27th (10u,12u,14u)

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TT: No tournament director in a NQ can ever turn a team away from the event. Never

If the umpire knew the rule.. all that would never have happened in the first place

 

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Well, Championship game was about to start when SD Thunder forfeit as their Coaches/parents decided competing late on Sunday wasn't worth it knowing they already had their berth. Would have loved to seen the rematch from Intensity's earlier victory over them, but appearently SD Thunder wasn't here for the quality competition. LOL!

At 16u States when Lasers White had to play Lasers Scarlet in the championship and both teams only really cared about the berths which had already been earn (and it was really late on a Sunday night), both teams agreed to not play and allow Scarlet to be declared the winner out of the winners bracket, a call was made to Warren Jones and he said if they didn't play they wouldn't receive their berths - so they played.

Now,wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth should that position choose to be enforced.

 

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At 16u States when Lasers White had to play Lasers Scarlet in the championship and both teams only really cared about the berths which had already been earn (and it was really late on a Sunday night), both teams agreed to not play and allow Scarlet to be declared the winner out of the winners bracket, a call was made to Warren Jones and he said if they didn't play they wouldn't receive their berths - so they played.

Now,wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth should that position choose to be enforced.

that was a state qualifier and in this new case, it is a national and warren can't manipulate the bids because it's a national.

put your self in their place though. it was only about the bid. championship in ohio meant nothing. you are tired, you risk injury, you are out of state and you have a couple hundred fans rooting and cheering against your every move. to win, they had to play at least 14 more innings and it was already late. why play? they already don't respect ohio softball, that is why they came here to earn the bid. winning meant nothing to them.

the way the buckeye heat vs thunder game was played showed the support ohio was getting. the heat side was packed. the fans were three and four deep and everyone was cheering for the heat like it was their own team. in a way, i can't blame them for not playing another inning.

 

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At 16u States when Lasers White had to play Lasers Scarlet in the championship and both teams only really cared about the berths which had already been earn (and it was really late on a Sunday night), both teams agreed to not play and allow Scarlet to be declared the winner out of the winners bracket, a call was made to Warren Jones and he said if they didn't play they wouldn't receive their berths - so they played.

Now,wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth should that position choose to be enforced.

Mike,

Great point.

I guess some of us were dis-appointed we didn't get yet another HIGH QUALITY game against a vary fine Cali team.

In the end, It sounds like EVERYONE left the park last night in agreement.

 

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Thanks for answering.

I'm very surprised the umpire didn't know the rule - you're allowed 3 conferences per 7-inning GAME and must change pitchers on the 4th and subsequent conferences. I agree it's a heads-up move to file a protest you know you will win rather than just set the ump straight without filing a protest.

SoCal Dad,

In your travels, do you guys run into the problem of umpires not knowing the rules for the particular sanction that they are umpiring that weekend? Is it isolated to Ohio or is it a wide-spread problem?

 

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And by the way, THANKS TO SD THUNDER as your attendance helped all our OH Teams get better this weekend.

CLASS ACT thru and thru as they were epitomy of TEAM even walking in/off field TWO by TWO. I loved that!

DD and I also talked about how amazing it was to see their GAME FACES removed immediately once Tourney over and all of them start giggling, laughing, and joking with the Intensity players during Trophy photos. Great self control to turn it on/off like that as I know our Intensity girls really appreciate the little time they did get to spend with them having a little fun afterwards.

 

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I wasn't passing judgement. I wouldn't have played again either (unless I was told I had to).

I was simply stating that in another qualifier (the 16u state tournament), the decision to not play the game would have resulted in the forfeiter of the berth per the head of Ohio ASA. I only raised the question as to its possibility in this case.

Woolfman, I am not sure I agree with your jurisdiction comment. I believe that Ohio ASA (Warren Jones) has jurisdiction of any qaulifier played in the state, National, State, Region 9, Metro or otherwise. Warren's decision to enforce or not, IMHO, is just that his decision. The question is "Did anyone ask him?" because at the State tournament the TD picked up the phone and called him.

 

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I wasn't passing judgement. I wouldn't have played again either (unless I was told I had to).

I was simply stating that in another qualifier (the 16u state tournament), the decision to not play the game would have resulted in the forfeiter of the berth per the head of Ohio ASA. I only raised the question as to its possibility in this case.

Woolfman, I am not sure I agree with your jurisdiction comment. I believe that Ohio ASA (Warren Jones) has jurisdiction of any qaulifier played in the state, National, State, Region 9, Metro or otherwise. Warren's decision to enforce or not, IMHO, is just that his decision. The question is "Did anyone ask him?" because at the State tournament the TD picked up the phone and called him.

so, at the 16u tournament, in a round a-bout way, the TD FORCED teams to play? Something seems wrong with that. If the two teams agree, why bother? lots of things at risk in a meaningless game.

I thought I heard conversations saying that the ASA director could not withhold a NATIONAL bid to an out of state team. and that bid could not be lost by forfeit. only if they were using an illegal player.

 

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so, at the 16u tournament, in a round a-bout way, the TD FORCED teams to play? Something seems wrong with that. If the two teams agree, why bother? lots of things at risk in a meaningless game.

I thought I heard conversations saying that the ASA director could not withhold a NATIONAL bid to an out of state team. and that bid could not be lost by forfeit. only if they were using an illegal player.

At 16u they definately were required to play even though the game ended up finishing after midnight (Monday morning).

To your other point though, I am sure there could be hell to pay for the appearance of withholding a berth to an out of state team.

Who knows, again not passing judgement just a related-topic observation.

 

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NOTE TO OHIO ASA & TDs:
Why would we dare let teams from other stats compete for OH Berths when they aren't even willing to complete the tourney. That was SURPRISING to say the least. FINISH WHAT YOU START! Even if it means another "L". Or would that been to hard to return to Cali with two "L"'s but yet a BERTH. I can hear all the Cali Coaches have a ball with that. So you went to Ohio to steal a berth and lost twice, but have a berth.

There should be about 20 Cali teams heading to Ohio next year for berths based on the above scenario... LOL!

NOTES to people that don't realize that National Qualifiers are different from local association and region championships:

As OQM said, they can't exclude out-of-region teams from National Qualifiers because they are open to all ASA teams per ASA Code. The closest out-of-region 14U NQ to SoCal was in Colorado and 1 team went there in an unsuccessful attempt to qualify. Ohio teams are fortunate to have several nearby regions where they can chase a berth.

These NQ berths didn't belong to Ohio like in their local association or region championships. Each region is entitled to host a NQ, but the berths don't belong to them.

I doubt you'll see an influx of CA teams next year. There aren't nearly as many teams chasing berths since they dramatically increased the number of berths we get at SoCal State last year from 3 to 12 (13 this year) and the teams that do chase somehow manage to spread out so they don't have to compete against each other.

 

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Please pass along a big Congratulations to your Coaches and Players even though there was some US against THEM as Ohio like the rest of the country is chasing Cali in Fastpitch.

Hope you all enjoyed your stay and the competition as I'm sure it's not easy coming in knowing everyone wants to beat you for bragging rights from a perspective we all are supporting our OH teams.

Great point about the NQ Berths not being owned by OH teams. Another example of how Cali Teams playing in OH help us all learn/mature. Pretty sure I saw players, coaches, parents, and UMPS being tested by San Diego Thunder. ^_^ Your coach brings SO MUCH more then a lineup to the game. It was Interesting and frustrating to watch him work a game depending on the situation, but there is no doubt he's bringing his A game for the girls every game too. ^_^!

 

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SoCal Dad,

In your travels, do you guys run into the problem of umpires not knowing the rules for the particular sanction that they are umpiring that weekend? Is it isolated to Ohio or is it a wide-spread problem?

I'm sorry, but I can only speak about SoCal.

There are very few ASA tournaments in SoCal, but ASA rules and umps are the norm for most of the rest that we play. We don't play many tourneys by the other organizations that are large enough to have their own rules since the level of competition is usually lower.

Umpires vary in experience and ability like teams - some are exceptional, most are decent and some are awful. Part of an organization's reputation is the quality of the umpires they use. The better ones use umpire service(s) that only use the better umps and the others use whatever they can get or is cheapest.

Our sport needs to attract and train more umpires in order to grow, so I'm more forgiving of a green umpire that is trying to become good than a mediocre veteran that doesn't care.

 

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Please pass along a big Congratulations to your Coaches and Players even though there was some US against THEM as Ohio like the rest of the country is chasing Cali in Fastpitch.

...

Thanks for the warm wishes, but I'm not with the SD Thunder. I'm a little familiar with them since my DD's 96 team has played them twice this year and their head coach has quite a reputation here.

I heard they were playing in Ohio on another site and figured I could track it here. I found this site last year while looking up Lasers Black before Nats.

My DD's team will be back at Nats this year and I look forward to tracking how the Ohio teams fare there.

 

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Thanks for the warm wishes, but I'm not with the SD Thunder. I'm a little familiar with them since my DD's 96 team has played them twice this year and their head coach has quite a reputation here.

I heard they were playing in Ohio on another site and figured I could track it here. I found this site last year while looking up Lasers Black before Nats.

My DD's team will be back at Nats this year and I look forward to tracking how the Ohio teams fare there.

SoCal Dad: What team is your dd playing on?

I knew we corresponded last year before and after Nationals but couldn't remember your dd team.

Mike (Lasers Black)

 

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SoCal Dad: What team is your dd playing on?

I knew we corresponded last year before and after Nationals but couldn't remember your dd team.

Mike (Lasers Black)

Irvine Sting - We played the first pool game and exchanged presents. DD still wears the OSU t-shirt she received.

 

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That's awesome!

 

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Irvine Sting - We played the first pool game and exchanged presents. DD still wears the OSU t-shirt she received.

Very cool. Great to hear you will be in Moline too. BTW, is the PowerSurge still together and have they qualified as well.

 

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Tangy-Mike,
I am really glad you made the post about the 14U NQ relating to the 16U States NQ. I was amazed they were allowed to forfeit and still receive the berth. We were told we had to play in order to receive the berth. The girls were fine with playing, but the drive home was a worry as tired as everyone was. Is there any clarification as to why it works differently even though both tournaments were NQ?

 

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Very cool. Great to hear you will be in Moline too. BTW, is the PowerSurge still together and have they qualified as well.

Power Surge 96 is still together and formidable as ever (#2 ranked 14u team in SoCal). PS96 and So Cal Jynx (#11) have automatic berths from finishing top 2 at Nationals last year.

There are a lot of CA teams with berths to Moline - I've heard 30 with 19 from SoCal. There are another 3+ berths up for grabs in CA in the next 2 weekends and they will be hotly contested since a few highly ranked teams don't have a berth yet.