Base Stealing Rules ... Anyone Heard of This One!??

[jt7663]

Had an opposing Coach educate us on a new one Not sure if he is right looking for a little Help? Our only Base Runner on 2nd getting a large lead to make catcher make a decision to throw or not. Catcher Runs at her to Run her Back to 2nd Base. I thought Good Play on Both sides. Coach stated that once our Runner turns her shoulders towards 2nd she has to go back or would be an out.

 

[rp06]

Wrong. Once the pitcher is in the circle with the ball and not acting like she is making a play, the runner has to commit to which base she is going to. If the catcher has the ball, the runner is free to stay off the base, go toward one base and then the other, etc. The runner does not have to commit unless the pitcher has the ball in the circle.

 

[Pacerdad57]

Wrong. Once the pitcher is in the circle with the ball and not acting like she is making a play, the runner has to commit to which base she is going to. If the catcher has the ball, the runner is free to stay off the base, go toward one base and then the other, etc. The runner does not have to commit unless the pitcher has the ball in the circle.

Yep, that's the way I've always heard it too.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Wrong. Once the pitcher is in the circle with the ball and not acting like she is making a play, the runner has to commit to which base she is going to. If the catcher has the ball, the runner is free to stay off the base, go toward one base and then the other, etc. The runner does not have to commit unless the pitcher has the ball in the circle.

...and that's ONLY if the pitcher in the circle with the ball is not threatening (faking) the throw. As long as the pitcher threatens, the play remains live and the runner (or other runner) can do as she (they) pleases.

My DD used to do this - she would get the ball in the circle and she had a habit of tryng to intimadate the runner at first by faking a throw to 1B (which was fine) - but she would do it sometimes with other runners on (not so fine).

She had an ump come up to her after a game and explain the rule to her. That the play is live and runners can advance as long as SHE is extending the play by faking the throw.

 

[Louuuuu]

What's always killed me is the coaches who want their catchers to run toward the runner.

Catchers have the most physically demanding position on the field already - why are you wearing her out even more? Trust her to throw to the base in front of the runner...

 

[spartansd]

What's always killed me is the coaches who want their catchers to run toward the runner.

Catchers have the most physically demanding position on the field already - why are you wearing her out even more? Trust her to throw to the base in front of the runner...

So is the goal to stop runner from advancing or is the goal to get the overly aggressive runner out? If it is to stop advancement then I can agree with you.

And on top of that how often is this really used in a game. At 16U I would say it is not even every game. So I do not agree that this is tiring the catcher out. If the base runner has too big of a lead the play is to run at her and make her commit because even at 16U there is likely not enough time to make two throws and get the runner out unless the runner has been committed one way.



BTW the look back rule is only in effect if the pitcher has control of the ball in the circle.

 

[Louuuuu]

So is the goal to stop runner from advancing or is the goal to get the overly aggressive runner out?

Spartansd, maybe I've led a sheltered life, but I've never seen a "running catcher" get anybody out.

 

[spartansd]

LOL

I guess you and I are not talking about the same play or you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic.

I am assuming we are talking about a play similar to a base runner being hung up between 3rd and home and a ball hit to the pitcher the pitcher obviously needs to run right at the base runner and get her to commit one way or the other. But in this play being discussed the catcher is running at the base runner hung up between 1st and 2nd or 2nd and 3rd. Which depending on the situation I would say that the catcher should either run right at the base runner or my actual preferred way to deal with these types of runners is to have catchers return the ball immediately to the pitcher after the pitch.

Regardless, if a runner is hung up between bases I have never heard that you should not run at the base runner. But if you are too lazy (yes that is me poking the bear) to run at the base runner I would agree that throwing to the lead base would be a wise move. Although the more throws you make the better chance you have to getting a throwing error.

Now if you are saying you have never seen this play work or happen I am pretty sure you are just being contrarian based on personal preference and to prove a point. Similar to the discussion on if a player should go for the lead runner in softball or always take the out at first. Which again we could spend many many hours debating.

 

[brownsfan]

Older DD when she caught mostly threw to 3rd base and had her do the dirty work after "strolling" up the 3rd baseline at a slight angle to the runner to make her make a move. If baserunner moved back to second, she fired the ball back to the pitcher. When she was baserunning, if a catcher threw behind her, ALWAYS took off. She had 1.8-2.0 speed and was a slapper while learning to become a triple threat before hanging up her cleats.

 

[coachjwb]

Yes, you are supposed to run at runner ... both to shorten the throw and reduce the chance of a throwing/catching error, and to possibly put the runner in a pickle. I have seen it work a few times in terms of catching the runner (but then again I am probably older!), but almost every time the runner went back to the base which is what the defense wants them to do ...

 

[Louuuuu]

I agree 100% that you head toward the runner - IF you're an infielder. (And the catcher if the runner is between 3rd & Home)

But I've seen too many coaches have their catcher run at the base-runner in every situation. (Maybe we ARE talking about different things, Spartansd... )

 

[SoCal_Dad]

But I've seen too many coaches have their catcher run at the base-runner in every situation. (Maybe we ARE talking about different things, Spartansd... )

I think you two have different scenarios in mind. Spartansd describes the runner being "hung up" which suggests they're far enough out that the catcher has a good play on them at either base if she forces them to commit first by going at them. I agree with you that some coaches have their catcher run at BR's unnecessarily.

Added: I just noticed your signature "Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage." How long have you had it?

 

[Louuuuu]

How long have you had it?

A few months. I probably broke a copyright law, or two...

 

[FastBat]

My DD is working on not pumping her arm to fake throw in the circle, too!

Sometimes coaches confuse themselves and others with the rules. A good idea is to be able to know the rule book well enough, to look up any rule, within a minute or two.

 

[wow]

Running at the runner does two things .. One already mentioned, shorten the throw.. More importantly makes the runner commit either go or stay. Now with the shorter throw AND after the runner commits the catcher can easily throw out the base runner. This is a text book play that a solid infield will get put outs. Think about this .. From a shorter distance the likelihood of throwing runners outs increases just by sheer reduction of the throw gap.

If a runner is half way and throw in front of them, runner goes back to base. Throw behind they advance..

The ball in circle.. Myth.. Pitcher has to be on the rubber in the act of pitching.. Love watching younger age pitchers running to
Circle to stop the play.. Does not work that way..

 

[manitoudan]

You guys don't watch enough SEO ball. We got catchers running everywhere and baserunners doing all sorts of silly stuff. One area is known for drawing throws from the catcher and getting in a run down or pickle on purpose .

 

[jt7663]

The ball in circle.. Myth.. Pitcher has to be on the rubber in the act of pitching.. Love watching younger age pitchers running to
Circle to stop the play.. Does not work that way..

[/QUOTE]

Ball in Circle Myth ?? Always thought it was as mentioned in thread several times. "In the pitching Circle with Control" & Not pump Faking /// Never heard mention of "On the Rubber" as well

 

[wow]

The biggest problem here is umpires not being consistent in the way this is enforced, much like the look back rule. So much of the time, teams who push the bases hard will "get halfway" leading to a pitcher, who is the circle to act like she will throw. Sometimes this draws a throw and some times it does not. The only point I was trying to make is if the pitcher is on the rubber with the ball in her hand taking a sign, no one can advance at that point. Simply being in the circle with the ball is not enough to stop a base runner from advancing.

The original post was about the catcher running at the base runner who is half way. Simply throwing back to the pitcher, in the circle, makes the runner make a decision, however that decision might be to advance to the next base. The catcher who runs at the base runner freezes the runner and then can simply hand the ball to the pitcher, who is in the circle and ready for the next pitch. Faking a throw by the pitcher is not enough. This kind of stuff is a non issue at the older ages as the throws are laser accurate and any runner who tries a delayed steal is likely out. This type of stuff happens more frequently at the younger ages.

 

[Louuuuu]

We got catchers running everywhere ...

But ultimately, running to their parents asking if they can transfer to a NWO team...

 

[softball31]

Running at the runner does two things .. One already mentioned, shorten the throw.. More importantly makes the runner commit either go or stay. Now with the shorter throw AND after the runner commits the catcher can easily throw out the base runner. This is a text book play that a solid infield will get put outs. Think about this .. From a shorter distance the likelihood of throwing runners outs increases just by sheer reduction of the throw gap.

If a runner is half way and throw in front of them, runner goes back to base. Throw behind they advance..

The ball in circle.. Myth.. Pitcher has to be on the rubber in the act of pitching.. Love watching younger age pitchers running to
Circle to stop the play.. Does not work that way..

But the ball in the circles does means the runner has to commit, they can't just stand out there. They either have to advance to next base or return.