Baserunning Rule Question

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High School game, runner at 1B, 1 out. Batter hits a grounder to second baseman. Second baseman attempts to tag baserunner. Baserunner stops and then takes a step back towards 1B. Baserunner remains in the baseline. Second baseman throws to 1B to get the batter. Baserunner from 1B advances safely to 2B. Umpire rules baserunner out for running in reverse.

I know the batter cannot run in reverse between Home and 1B. I also know the rules state that a runner cannot run in reverse to "confuse the defense" or "make a travesty of the game", which doesn't seem to apply. Was the umpire correct in his ruling? If so, which rule applies?

 

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The umpire was incorrect. In fact, as we all know, sometimes a runner is required to run the bases in reverse order. Sorry, no rule book in front of me.

 

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This is an incorrect interpretation.

There's no rule that says a runner cannot stop between bases to avoid or delay a tag. There is a rule that says a batter-runner advancing to first base cannot reverse back toward home to avoid a tag. That rule doesn't apply here.

The "travesty" rule, for running the bases in reverse order, really only applies to a runner purposely going backwards with the intent to occupy a base already held. For example...a runner that tries to "steal" first base from second as a tactic to let a runner on third try to score.

This was a really bad call!

 

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Thanks OTB and Bretman. My understanding of the rules is the same as you've explained but I wanted to make sure I hadn't skipped or misread something. To make matters worse, this was the ruling the umpires arrived at after conferring with each other. Ugh!

 

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Bad call by umpire you can avoide a tag as long as you dont run out of base line .

 

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... Which is what players do constantly when caught in a rundown.

 

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If the runner is forced to the next base, how can they go back? We are talking about a "FORCE PLAY" correct? My way of thinking is you must "advance" to the next base. If you do not, then you may be called out,even if you remain on the base you may be tagged out.

 

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If the runner is forced to the next base, how can they go back? We are talking about a "FORCE PLAY" correct? My way of thinking is you must "advance" to the next base. If you do not, then you may be called out,even if you remain on the base you may be tagged out.

The baserunner stopped, which was the right move IMHO, since if she had just run into the tag would have resulted in an easy double play. By doing so, she forced the fielder to have to either tag her, throw the ball to 2nd to get the lead runner, or make the throw to first. The fielder made the throw to first for the out and the runner advanced to 2nd. Coach then argued and the umpires conferred and then blew the call and turned it into a double play anyhow.

BTW, the call at 3rd on your baserunner, although a judgement call by the field ump may have been overturned by the home plate umpire if your coach had asked. It was another case where the field ump was not in position to make the right call, and the home plate ump knew it was the wrong call.

 

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If the runner is forced to the next base, how can they go back? We are talking about a "FORCE PLAY" correct? My way of thinking is you must "advance" to the next base. If you do not, then you may be called out,even if you remain on the base you may be tagged out.

Unfortunately, "your way of thinking" is not how this rule is interpreted or applied. A forced runner can advance, not advance, stop or retreat as they wish. Yes, this is called "a force play", but that doesn't mean "advance or else"!

The fielder made the throw to first for the out and the runner advanced to 2nd. Coach then argued and the umpires conferred and then blew the call and turned it into a double play anyhow.

BTW, the call at 3rd on your baserunner, although a judgement call by the field ump may have been overturned by the home plate umpire if your coach had asked. It was another case where the field ump was not in position to make the right call, and the home plate ump knew it was the wrong call.

You hate to hear about umpires misinterpreting a rule. You REALLY hate to hear about them misinterpreting a rule just because a coach talked them into it!

BTW...the plate umpire can never "overturn" a base umpire's call. An umpire may, at his discretion, consult the other umpire to see if he had a better angle, saw something he missed, has additional information, etc. But one umpire an NEVER, on his own, overturn another umpire's call. The call belongs to the umpire who initially made it and he is the only one that can change it.

 

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Unfortunately, "your way of thinking" is not how this rule is interpreted or applied. A forced runner can advance, not advance, stop or retreat as they wish. Yes, this is called "a force play", but that doesn't mean "advance or else"!

You hate to hear about umpires misinterpreting a rule. You REALLY hate to hear about them misinterpreting a rule just because a coach talked them into it!

BTW...the plate umpire can never "overturn" a base umpire's call. An umpire may, at his discretion, consult the other umpire to see if he had a better angle, saw something he missed, has additional information, etc. But one umpire an NEVER, on his own, overturn another umpire's call. The call belongs to the umpire who initially made it and he is the only one that can change it.

Agreed, but could he have overturned it if the coach had asked the field umpire to consult with the home plate ump? Which BTW, she didn't.

 

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They were fun games to watch and all of the girls played well. 2nd game went 9 innings with the Medina pitcher throwing both games.
8 sophs on Avon Lake varsity(6 starting) and it was a great showing against a quality, well coached team.

 

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Agreed, but could he have overturned it if the coach had asked the field umpire to consult with the home plate ump? Which BTW, she didn't.

Here's the way it's supposed to work, by-the-book (umpire manual):

- Coach must ask the umpire who actually made the call to check with his partner. There should be some valid reason for asking, other than coach just not liking the call. (Examples: Pulled foot from base, swipe tag, poor positioning, dropped ball on a tag.) If coach goes to the other umpire first, he should be told, "You have to talk to the umpire who made the call" and offer no further comment on the play.

- The umpire being asked (the one who made the call) can, at his discretion, consult with the other umpire(s). They can provide any information they might have that the first umpire may have missed. The umpire is not obligated to check, if he is certain of what he saw.

- After huddling up, ONLY the umpire who made the original call can change it. He is not obligated to change it and the other umpires can't force him to change it or change it themselves.

 

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Bretman, your wisdom and un-biased comments are appreciated. Can you also add, if you have any thoughts, what the percentage of "over-turned" calls are? We've all seen that , even with a legitimate argument which is presented properly, one ump will very rarely tell the original ump that he missed a call.

 

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It's kind of hard to guess at a percentage- and even harder to guess at what other umpires are doing in games I never see.

This will be a very unscientific guess, based on my own experiences. I would say that following this appeal process has resulted in a call being changed about 25% of the time.

One reason that number is on the low side is that a good percentage of the time the umpire being asked agrees with the call. Perhaps a bigger reason is that on many plays both umpires have separate responsibilities (such as, one is watching a runner cross the plate while the other is watching a play on the bases) and the umpire being consulted simply has no input to offer- he didn't get a good view of the disputed play because he was responsible for watching something else.

Personally, if there is ever a legitimate reason for me to check with my partner I will, and I'll listen to whatever he has to say. I've reversed a few of my own calls when my partner was able to provide something I may have missed.

The flip side of the coin is that if my partner comes to me for help, I will tell him exactly what I saw. What he chooses to do with that information is up to him.

 

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I think in general and I think Bretman will agree... the majority of the umpires want to get the right call.

But, I have seen some over the years with egos and have "what I called is what I called" attitude.

Last year at a tournament at Berliner ( and all the umpires were not from Columbus area either ) I listened in the morning meetings and I would say based on my feelings.. 1/2 of them was ego driven from the way they talked.

The best umpire goes unnoticed when he walks off the field.