Bunting with 2 strikes/emotional dad killing his daughters chances

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Bunting with 2 strikes always makes for an interesting discussion, and how an emotional Dad and player could have ruined her chances to be recruited because of it.

As a coach of many years I have a strong personal opinion on this subject: If you were asked to bunt twice and did not execute (especially at 13U & up) SHAME ON YOU! The odds are no better that you are going to now get re-set, swing with confidence and hit the ball for a base hit than they are for you to (try) to bunt for a third time. In addition, almost every defensive player "relaxes" and takes a couple steps back when you get 2 strikes because ;"You're not supposed to bunt with 2 strikes" a perfect opportunity to surprise the defense and get a bunt for a hit down. This is not done every time, but there are many opportunities to make it work and is silly to stand by some "rule" that you are not supposed to so never should....

Now to yesterday: Akron indoor tournament, high school aged kid makes 2 attempts to bunt and coach signals for her to do it again. She fouls the third one off and comes off the field crying....labored breathing, on the verge of getting out of control crying with big tears and all. Emotional dad walks up and says something to her she said "he told me to"...Dad proceeds to drop the F-bomb and says" why are we bunting with 2 strikes, the next time he asked you to do that ignore him!"
First of all Dad: He is the coach your not. Your tender little flower should have been able to execute a bunt at her age/practice it with her. You should focus your attention (after the game) on explaining what really was so terrible about that situation HER LACK OF EXECUTION, AND CRYING AND BLAMING THE COACH FOR HER LACK OF EXECUTION.

Let the debating begin!

 

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I don't care to directly address what happened because I wasn't there and don't really know all of the details, but I will comment on the general subject.

I have never purposely called for a bunt attempt with 2 strikes on a batter ... I say "purposely" because I have twice in my coaching career called for one when I lost track of the count ... and shame on me for doing that. I can't remember what happened on the first one some years ago, but the second time was in a fall game this year, and I took responsibility for it and apologized to the girl and the parents for doing it after, especially when she fouled off the pitch and struck out. Both our player and her parents were very cool about it, though I am sure they thought I was an idiot! I just don't think it's a very good strategy, especially at the younger ages generally speaking.

With that being said, I recognize the fact that it can be a legitimate strategy in some selected situations, and that it is the coach's perogative to do this, and of course that there should be no public display by a player or parent no matter what the situation is. If I had a good bunter with speed up with the winning run on second and no one out, and I didn't think the batter had a good chance to make contact otherwise, and a strong hitter behind her, I just might ...

I personally feel that the art of bunting has deteriorated some in recent years, and that a good player should be able to get down a bunt almost at will. While hitting has "caught up" to pitching in recent years and the game has changed as a result, I still strongly believe that it's an important part of the game with 60 feet bases. And I also have to believe that most travel and college coaches can learn a lot in the recruiting of girls by just watching a girl attempt a few bunts.

 

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I’m for this and here’s why:

How many times have you seen a girl go up to bat, try to bunt twice and get called out on the third strike. She gets just as furious with the looking k as the coach. She gets just a furious as the coach if she fouls a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] attempt and gets an out. Most of the time, unless you have a very strong batter mechanically sound, they can fight off that 0-2 with a base hit. Most if they do make contact, grounds out.

I’ve seen this played, especially a lot in the NE corner of Ohio in Poland. I was scratching my head when I saw it failed. The next batter came up, 0-2 bunted attempts, and the defense once again played back. The girl bunted on with no problems. Now the bases are loaded, and the next batter did the exact same thing, and when it was an 0-2 bunted count, she bunted the ball. The girl from 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] made it home easily.

I even witnessed this and executed perfectly with my older dd. She fouled two bunts to get to 0-2, swung away but fouled it on next pitch, and then bunted. Went to second base because no one covered because there was a runner at second.

 

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Execute...Execute....Execute

Stop your whining and get the bunt down.

You score in softball through execution.

 

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I have seen this executed perfectly in a suicide situation this fall. It can be done, and some coaches aren't afraid to use it. If everything happened the way you say, the player needs to grow up, and the dad needs to shut up.

 

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part of us winning at Nationals was doing this twice in the finals... there's a time, place, and reason. Trust them and if the staff and players did their jobs and the talent matches the pressure management the kid has, it will be ok. Teach prior to the games... coach strategy in the actual games. If they fail, so what... they will live. And when the execute... the celebration in your mind and heart is cliche in that money can't buy it!!!

 

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I don't do it often, but this past fall we dropped a bunt with 2 strikes and 2 outs to get the winning run across the plate. Sometimes it is the correct call and catching your opponent off-guard is part of the game.

 

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One of my peeves is when I give the bunt sign and the player pulls back and the umpire rings up a strike. I have told my kids that since actions speak louder than words it sends a message to me that they are putting their desire to hit above the needs of team and don't want to bunt. I am more likely to call bunt with two strikes after this happens. It's amazing how well kids can execute a bunt given no other choice.

 

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In the above mentioned situation its not so much that the coach asked her to bunt with two strikes, as it is a frustrated coach showing the player up.

 

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Am I reading this wrong - or is the problem with the players crying because she didn't perform or the dad for being a *****bag? Or maybe the player cried because she knew the dad was going to be a *****bag. Either way - doesn't sound like a college level player to me.

 

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Tony ... I know what you're saying ... I've definitely seen kids make weak attempts at bunting who I knew were better bunters, and my conclusion was similar ... that they just didn't want to ... and then there are those who will say that they didn't see the sign ... saw that on more than one occasion last winter while coaching some prima donnas in a high school winter league. I will say that there have been times when I have been tempted to signal a bunt with 2 strikes when someone is doing this, but then it only hurts the rest of the team. The better option is to just bench them. Since I was coaching the team for my friend the head coach who I used to assist for, I let it go last year, but I told this year's team that I wouldn't be putting up with any of that kind of stuff and they have been great so far.

Lady Knights ... I can only assume you were at the game vs. just drawing that conclusion from the original post. While a coach shouldn't show a player up per se, maybe it was more about teaching a valuable message (i.e., learn to bunt!) during winter ball?

 

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The better option is to just bench them.

If I was pretty certain that a player was purposely fouling off bunts, they would be on the bench before we ever got to that third pitch. Assuming a player is not doing it on purpose, I'm not a big fan of two-strike bunts. What are the odds of a fair ball on a bunt? I'm not sure, but if it's 50%, then you have a 50% chance of a strike out. We don't have the data at any level of softball because nobody keeps it, but common sense tells me that a two-strike bunt is likely to yield a worse result than hitting away most of the time.

 

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Tony ... I know what you're saying ... I've definitely seen kids make weak attempts at bunting who I knew were better bunters, and my conclusion was similar ... that they just didn't want to ... and then there are those who will say that they didn't see the sign ... saw that on more than one occasion last winter while coaching some prima donnas in a high school winter league. I will say that there have been times when I have been tempted to signal a bunt with 2 strikes when someone is doing this, but then it only hurts the rest of the team. The better option is to just bench them. Since I was coaching the team for my friend the head coach who I used to assist for, I let it go last year, but I told this year's team that I wouldn't be putting up with any of that kind of stuff and they have been great so far.

Lady Knights ... I can only assume you were at the game vs. just drawing that conclusion from the original post. While a coach shouldn't show a player up per se, maybe it was more about teaching a valuable message (i.e., learn to bunt!) during winter ball?

I disagree that it's showing up the player. And it's not about missed signs. I'm talking about when they show bunt, pull back and the ump rings them up. This is a situation where we recognize the problem and have talked to the player and I've told them "next time you do that you're bunting with two strikes". And yes this is winter league and the games are meaningless. Would I do it in a close elimination game? Not likely.

But I do believe some of the best lessons are learned with a negative consequence. I can recall being ten years old, new to a team and wasn't used to having to look at my coach between pitches to get a sign. We were playing a spring scrimmage and after having been told at least twice, I again forgot to look down. My coach called time and immediately benched me without finishing the at bat. I never made that mistake again.

 

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Am I reading this wrong - or is the problem with the players crying because she didn't perform or the dad for being a *****bag? Or maybe the player cried because she knew the dad was going to be a *****bag. Either way - doesn't sound like a college level player to me.

I agree.....and if I were the parents of the other kids on this team, I would have some serious concerns about having a player/family like this on the team....this sounds as if it were supposed to be a recruiting situation!!! This just gives the team a bad reputation and don't kid yourself - college coaches remember this sort of thing. Nothing is worse than kids crying, or whining, parents coddling, badmouthing, kids coming in and out of dugout getting food/Gatorade - no way in HELL I would want my kid to be on a team with parents/kids that jeopardize my kids chance of getting looks

 

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Tony ... I think we're saying the same thing ... I was questioning what Lady Knights said about the coach showing up the player, and was speculating that it was perhaps teaching a lesson as well, just like the one you got taught. Here's a question though ... could we as travel coaches in today's world do the same thing your coach did when you were 10?

 

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Tony ... I think we're saying the same thing ... I was questioning what Lady Knights said about the coach showing up the player, and was speculating that it was perhaps teaching a lesson as well, just like the one you got taught. Here's a question though ... could we as travel coaches in today's world do the same thing your coach did when you were 10?

Probably not with girls, but I have been tempted.

But everything is such a big deal now. At the time it ****ed and I thought my coach was the meanest *** in the world but after three years playing for that man I have been grateful for the experience ever since. I tell people that he was like the Woody Hayes of Little League baseball. This was also an era where your teacher could drag you out in the hall by your ear and wear you out with a paddle, and then would get it twice as bad once your parents found out (and they always did).

 

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several years ago I witnessed a dad/coach be really rough on his kid , She's a top twenty D-1 recruit for the class of 2015 today.. parents need to get thicker skin and allow coachs some room to crack the whip .

 

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I will often have a player bunt with 2 strikes, especially in a sac situation. We work heavily on bunting at every practice, I communicate with them how important being able to excute a bunt is when I feel we need it, and they know it doesn't matter if they are lead off, clean up or in the 7 hole when your number is called you will have THREE opportunities to execute. You should have seen the smile on the face of my clean up hitter last season when she got down a sac with an 0-2 count last year, it was the first time I asked her to bunt in probably 80+ games but now she knows she can do it the next time and be less nervous.

 

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I disagree that it's showing up the player. And it's not about missed signs. I'm talking about when they show bunt, pull back and the ump rings them up. This is a situation where we recognize the problem and have talked to the player and I've told them "next time you do that you're bunting with two strikes". And yes this is winter league and the games are meaningless. Would I do it in a close elimination game? Not likely.

But I do believe some of the best lessons are learned with a negative consequence. I can recall being ten years old, new to a team and wasn't used to having to look at my coach between pitches to get a sign. We were playing a spring scrimmage and after having been told at least twice, I again forgot to look down. My coach called time and immediately benched me without finishing the at bat. I never made that mistake again.

You call it a "life lesson" and I call it "showing up" a player. I wasn't there when this happened, but have been in similar situations where frustration as a coach led me to call a bunt with 2 strikes. Usually stemming from prior practice (or lack thereof) or lack of effort on the players part in a game, compounding my frustration!!! "Life Lesson", "proving a point", "showing them up" you pick your own metaphor. Bottom line...get the darn bunt down!!!

 

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We bunt with 2 strikes a lot, we practice bunting, I put them into positions to be successful now it's up to them to execute the bunt. The majority of the time they get it down lol