Calling off the dogs

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Triple, I guess I find your post internally inconsistent or, on second thought, maybe it's your premise with which I disagree. Play enough "select travel" ball and you are going to run into mismatches that rival, if not trump, the mismatches in school ball. Even if the dominant team scores 12-15 runs in the first inning, there are still innings to be played before the mercy rule kicks in. At that point, your players ARE "playing down", whether or not you call off the dogs. In fact, if you don't call off the dogs, the reps you think are so important are usually offensive reps that you really don't want for most of your players. Hitches in swings and other timing and mechanical problems get reinforced when your batter is facing a pitcher whose stuff is so poor (and whose defense is so weak) that the batter, with all her problems, is still getting base hits.

And maybe most importantly, just because such a horrible mismatch occurs between two teams playing select ball doesn't mean that the sportsmanship you rightly think is so important during school ball is somehow transmogrified so as to allow the far better team to continue to humiliate a team that might be making one of its first forays into the travel ball realm.

JMHO

I respectfully understand your position. Maybe it comes down to personal goals, when and how we intend to teach our dd's life lessons as both sides can teach extremely valid and justified lessons. Mercy and Grace are wonderful things... As are relentless pressure to never quit, never let up. Like it or not, kids learn valuable lessons getting beat 22-0. Matter of fact, that team might have 2-3 really good players, and that 22-0 beating helps 1 of those kids realize they will never reach their full potential on that team. So, although your point is well taken, there are too many sides to this deal for anyone view to be THE RIGHT ONE. Have fun.

 

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I like the mercy rule +2 generally, but each game is different. I think it depends on the quality of your opponent. If it's say a good high school team against a typical inner-city high school team, then call off the dogs as early as possible, maybe with a 7-8 run lead. But if it's two teams that are normally competitive against each other, then I'd say with about 10-run lead in the middle innings.

 

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I just found this article via Stacy Mahoe's blog...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...oftball_0422.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=46

 

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If you have lived a life in sport and have any sense of the history of sport you would understand that there is no glory in beating an opponent into oblivian and there is no place in sport for it. The basketball coach that won a game 100-0 was fired by their school for bringing shame to it. If you think that you are teaching them a lesson that the good players should abandon that team what kind of message is that. Also who are you to teach those other girls life lessons. How about asking the other coach how they would like to handle it. I am sure it never occurred to you as you get some kind of jollies winning 30-1
What if there is some good young talent that quits because of coaches like that.

I insist that you can have class , respect for the game, the other team, the other coaches and still be a great team. In fact you will get more respect from the folks that count.

 

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Sport is about both competition and sportsmanship. This thread seems to get stuck on one end or the other. Again, depending on your goals and lessons intended to teach, either approach is correct in particular situations.

Once a competition is watered down by one team no longer competing, what is the point of playing? There is nothing more demoralizing then watching someone lay down because your team is that bad.

Our kids are much stronger then we think, and babying them, by laying off doesn't serve them at all and is not how life will be for them outside the lines.

As an elite athlete in my youth, I treasure the two points and three rebounds I scored as a sixth grader on varsity more then the 40 points and 38 rebounds as an either grader winning CYO Championships in Chicago.

Losing and losing big fueled my desire to get better, to practice every day, to be the best I could be. I would have been PO'ed if someone laid down while I was playing even when the score was 40-6, which is was almost every game in sixth grade.

Those who think we are teaching lessons by calling off the dogs are confusing their community volunteer aspirations with competitive sports.

Competitive sports comes with lots of pain, agony, defeat, victory, pride, sportsmanship...... why take away one of the natural realities of competetive sports.

As a parent, you are setting the stage for a reality check, as nobody is calling off the dogs during College Finals, SATs, your first job, a bad economy, getting outsourced, being passed over on promotion.......

Sorry, couldn't dis-agree more, and I'm an extremely devout Christian that really understands Mercy, Grace, Humility, and being Humble. However, learning that you need to never give up no matter how bad it is, is too great a lesson to lose out on because someone steals that opportunity by laying down and calling off the dogs on a ball field, which might allow a kid to learn how to cope with such adversity, opposed to having to deal with in in real life later. Why do parents shelter their children so much to the point of limiting their life experience?

There is a time and a place for that mentality, but not in Competitive sports which like nothing else can simulate future real life challenges.

 

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I've seen many football games where teams are taking a knee or running basic dive plays during the last minute of games they have already won. And it is not to avoid the turnover. When you are up 20 with the ball, you aren't really concerned with a turnover. How many football teams have allowed the clock to run out when they are in field goal range or near the end zone late in a game?

Football is probably the most character building sport there is and it is definitely considered inappropriate, at all levels, to be throwing 50 yard bombs when you are up 20 with a minute to go.

 

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Triple---it is very admirable that your competitive drive was stoked by taking repeated beatings, I respect that. But I suspect you are the exception to the rule. For most kids, losing badly every game does not encourage them, it crushes them.

I agree that teaching kids to continue to battle even when things look grim is a positive lesson. Not giving up in the face of adversity is one thing, but facing absolute humiliation is another.

Yes, our kids are stronger than we think, but no one gains anything in a criminal mismatch. True competition is based on the premise of teams/athletes being pitted against presumably equal opponents. That's were the sporting part comes in---neither is assured a win, and that's what makes the games enjoyable.

That's why they have A and B levels in tournaments/D1,2,3 schools---to try to avoid these kinds of situations. But they still occur, and have to be dealt with, hopefully in a humane, merciful way (hence the name "Mercy Rule").

Reasonable folks understand that sometimes the Mercy Rule is inadequate---it doesn't always go far enough, and further steps on the coaches' part are needed. The girls don't like to win ugly--- they want and need their coach to be the leader and show them how to let the other side salvage some dignity. There is your life lesson ~ allowing the opponent to save face.

 

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Kat,

Agreed.

Any reasonable person understands all of this. The problem is when in executing the act of mercy it is usually botched either by players, coaches, and or their fans turning the game into a joke.

Seen it happen three times this year. It was much worse, then simply getting badly beat. In my opinion, there was the old adding insult to injury.

I guess we all have our views based on our experiences. We always need to be sportsman, how we go about that can be vary different and often with results not reflecting our intentions.

 

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Kat,

Agreed.

Any reasonable person understands all of this. The problem is when in executing the act of mercy it is usually botched either by players, coaches, and or their fans turning the game into a joke.

Seen it happen three times this year. It was much worse, then simply getting badly beat. In my opinion, there was the old adding insult to injury.

I guess we all have our views based on our experiences. We always need to be sportsman, how we go about that can be vary different and often with results not reflecting our intentions.

You are absolutely right, the execution can be botched---it cannot be flagrant, or it will be mistaken for arrogance.

I don't believe that calling off the dogs is the same as laying down. A game that is not played full-out can still hold (to be cliche, lol) teachable moments---not the least of which is demonstrating grace, compassion and empathy. Such games still have value.

 

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Mercy! Uncle! No Mas!

Kat has brought me back from the "over competitive" side. ^_^!

Glad you are back on here. Cinci rec ball, will be a kinder/gentler place now. ^_^!

 

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Mercy! Uncle! No Mas!

Kat has brought me back from the "over competitive" side. ^_^!

Glad you are back on here. Cinci rec ball, will be a kinder/gentler place now. ^_^!

Oh! A wise guy, hunh? Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck.

 

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you guys should have a best of three rock-paper-scissors

I had to do this very thing last night. It taught my girls to work their base bath running skills, work on how to be a base runner at third base. How to work their feet, hips, hands, etc while on the base path... just have to be constructive and make the best of it. Much better to do this in the game when you know it won't hurt (at our young age) and not as boring as it would have been in practice. Now I will say playing this way will be avoided by changing venues and looking out for the best competition next time.

The cool thing was the other coach thanked me (as expected) and at times said "hey, let her steal home..." my girls need to react and work on that. So we did when it was cool. Make the best of it, play with tact, and never stop working them hard for their own growth.

 

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hey Bob, are you Moe???

 

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Curly! At least in this thread...

 

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Lester:

We too have had coaches thank us for going station to station and, if necessary, leaving base early. And yes, you can attempt to use the mismatches to work on particular skills while you are in important ways calling off the dogs.