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Hey playball19, It's recruiting and it's bush league.
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Yes it should be addressed here so others are aware of there tactics JMHO
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complete bush league. there r other ways to compliment players that are much more appropiate.
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Those are the threads Bear shuts down in an instant. As a poster said, TB is a small community, words gets around quickly.
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What about poaching in February? I've seen this first hand recently....
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how so?
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Another coach flat out calling a player and offering a spot even though she was committed ( and played in and earned an ASA birth ) with another team! pretty bush league....eh?
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Agree this seems to be common practice for some prominent organizations in Ohio. Say's a lot about what type of people they are and what they really think about kids on there own teams.
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Agree 100% What message is that sending to his own players? ( I must not be good enough, coach is bringing in another player, etc...) How do you trust a coach that does thid if you are a parent on that team?? Seriously?
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Sometimes it's the parents contacting other Coaches/Teams in February when it looks as if little susie isn't going to play X position or, they don't like the direction the team is going (practices, tournaments, pain in the a$$ parents who come with the team).
It happens....
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The bottom line is that players do not leave if they are happy. Do you want players to stay who no longer want to be with your team? As a parent, I never let my dd leave after she committed to a team.
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I used to get really excited about this topic back in the day. When I was in Ohio and having no other life I was fortunate to get to watch a lot of our Stingrays teams playing tournaments. There was one particular organization head that used to sit in our stands and strike up conversations with parents and hand out his card - mid tournament. Whenever I would see him in the bleachers I would walk up and sit directly beside him until he left. I was annoying that way. Then when we moved our tryouts to OSU we would have coaches from other teams walking around handing out their cards. Fired me up as well. Then I moved to Florida.......
Florida has no - I mean no - roster control (except non-fall ASA Qualifiers). Kids in the younger ages play for different teams each week. Coaches call parents at home and at work. Coaches and parents hand out cards constantly. Fired me up at first and I would call them on it. But I just came to realize that if our team performed, acted properly and the fans behaved we would attract the players we wanted to be around. And it sure did.
Would I still do/say some of the crazy things I did in the past when I thought people were out of line - probably. But it would be much quieter and noone else would know about it.........lol
Florida has no - I mean no - roster control (except non-fall ASA Qualifiers). Kids in the younger ages play for different teams each week. Coaches call parents at home and at work. Coaches and parents hand out cards constantly. Fired me up at first and I would call them on it. But I just came to realize that if our team performed, acted properly and the fans behaved we would attract the players we wanted to be around. And it sure did.
Would I still do/say some of the crazy things I did in the past when I thought people were out of line - probably. But it would be much quieter and noone else would know about it.........lol
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Had that happen two years in a row where the coach or head of the organization make calls and promise the greener grass on their side. Sad thing is it was the same NEO organization whom did this. Guess they struggle to find their own talent at times.
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This is pretty much a dead horse if you ask me.
If its one local travel team that does local travel tournaments recruiting players to come join them to do the same type of tournament, I don't think that is cool.
However if its an upgrade for a player and more exposure for them, I have nothing wrong with this. If you have a coach from the Virginia Shamrocks try to pick up one of your players, to play a national schedule and they are interested there's nothing wrong with that, no matter the time of year. Look at a teams schedules and talk to college coaches and get there opinion if they are truly interested in playing in college and get the college coaches feedback. There are always players floating around that can fill in or your can pick up if you lose someone. This post to me should be tied in with trophy hunting, if your coach isn't doing the right thing for his players, and is lied too, find a new team, you only get one shot at being recruited before its too late.
I just had a parent, contact me this week, who's coach is moving the team to 18's and promised the girls much needed exposure, and the schedule came out and they are doing a bunch of USSSA tournaments that will not provide any exposure at all. The parent was livid, and wants to find a new team. I don't blame her at all for this, she has every right to feel this way, as the coach lied to them and is only looking to add trophies.
While we have never asked a kid to leave a team in the middle of a season, we certainly give them the opportunity to fill in if they have an off weekend. Or we will take notes on players and be sure to invite them to try outs in the fall. Nothing wrong with this, so people, put personal agendas aside and do what's best for the kids.
If its one local travel team that does local travel tournaments recruiting players to come join them to do the same type of tournament, I don't think that is cool.
However if its an upgrade for a player and more exposure for them, I have nothing wrong with this. If you have a coach from the Virginia Shamrocks try to pick up one of your players, to play a national schedule and they are interested there's nothing wrong with that, no matter the time of year. Look at a teams schedules and talk to college coaches and get there opinion if they are truly interested in playing in college and get the college coaches feedback. There are always players floating around that can fill in or your can pick up if you lose someone. This post to me should be tied in with trophy hunting, if your coach isn't doing the right thing for his players, and is lied too, find a new team, you only get one shot at being recruited before its too late.
I just had a parent, contact me this week, who's coach is moving the team to 18's and promised the girls much needed exposure, and the schedule came out and they are doing a bunch of USSSA tournaments that will not provide any exposure at all. The parent was livid, and wants to find a new team. I don't blame her at all for this, she has every right to feel this way, as the coach lied to them and is only looking to add trophies.
While we have never asked a kid to leave a team in the middle of a season, we certainly give them the opportunity to fill in if they have an off weekend. Or we will take notes on players and be sure to invite them to try outs in the fall. Nothing wrong with this, so people, put personal agendas aside and do what's best for the kids.
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dazed and confused:
What you describe in your post, at least the example of taking on a player whose parent contacted you more than three months before travel ball season because the existing team wasn't providing a schedule that was consistent with the earlier promises, probably wouldn't be considered poaching by most of us. There are grey areas such as this and when the player contacts the team it's pretty clear the player and her family have already made the decision to leave the prior team.
I find it a little harder to say that active in-season poaching is "for the girls". There are other girls on the existing "first" team that are relying on having enough talented players to compete each weekend. As a coach on another "second" team I just can't think that I would be acting ethically to contact a player who has committed to the first team with a proposal that she leave during travel ball season. And the odds that such a player can be easily and quickly replaced mid-season by the first team are not very attractive.
These are not easy questions and each scenario involves matters of ethics for both the player and the coaches. As with so many things in life it is a matter of degree. The worst case of poaching, in my opinion, is when the coach of the second team invites someone to jump ship mid-season even though it will mean someone on the second team is going to be completely marginalized when it comes to playing time. From that worst case scenario there are all kinds of variations and possible judgments about whether an action, by a player or a coach, is ethical.
What you describe in your post, at least the example of taking on a player whose parent contacted you more than three months before travel ball season because the existing team wasn't providing a schedule that was consistent with the earlier promises, probably wouldn't be considered poaching by most of us. There are grey areas such as this and when the player contacts the team it's pretty clear the player and her family have already made the decision to leave the prior team.
I find it a little harder to say that active in-season poaching is "for the girls". There are other girls on the existing "first" team that are relying on having enough talented players to compete each weekend. As a coach on another "second" team I just can't think that I would be acting ethically to contact a player who has committed to the first team with a proposal that she leave during travel ball season. And the odds that such a player can be easily and quickly replaced mid-season by the first team are not very attractive.
These are not easy questions and each scenario involves matters of ethics for both the player and the coaches. As with so many things in life it is a matter of degree. The worst case of poaching, in my opinion, is when the coach of the second team invites someone to jump ship mid-season even though it will mean someone on the second team is going to be completely marginalized when it comes to playing time. From that worst case scenario there are all kinds of variations and possible judgments about whether an action, by a player or a coach, is ethical.
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I really don't get all the recruiting anger. If a team has 2 stud catcher and a really good #3 who doesn't get much time at her favorite position and an opposing coach notices that and offers her a spot on his team as the #1 catcher next year, why is that so bad? The kid wants to catch its her childhood. I don't recruit and have had my kids recruited but I have enough belief in what I'm doing not to let it bother me. If I seen a really nice player and said I'd like to see her at our tryouts, why is that a problem? We all know July starts the planning for parents on what their going to do next year, it's part of travel softball.
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Very nicely put dazedandconfused. I'll hit the "like"button on this one.
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I'm talking about the coach that tries to get them to leave during the season.
Not inviteing them to tryouts for the next season.
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Without going back over the past 13 years and copying and pasting one of my old posts, I'll just say I'm against poaching. The one thing that I do want to address is the notion that the poachers are just out for "what is best for the girls." That is such an out and out lie that it makes me truly laugh out loud.
If the poachers are only out for "what is best for the girls," why do they only try to poach the best players? If they are such great coaches, then wouldn't it make more sense to take a marginal player and coach her up, since that would provide the most overall benefit to the softball community? Arguing that girls should go where they will be happiest is totally separate from the issue of coaches poaching. By poaching, I mean coaches who make an unsolicited contact of a girl or her parents after the tryout season has ended in the fall. Coaches who do that have one thing in mind, winning more games.
If the poachers are only out for "what is best for the girls," why do they only try to poach the best players? If they are such great coaches, then wouldn't it make more sense to take a marginal player and coach her up, since that would provide the most overall benefit to the softball community? Arguing that girls should go where they will be happiest is totally separate from the issue of coaches poaching. By poaching, I mean coaches who make an unsolicited contact of a girl or her parents after the tryout season has ended in the fall. Coaches who do that have one thing in mind, winning more games.
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