Courtesy Runner rules ASA

[Softballfarm]

Hi everyone...(bretman)

We were playing at the All Sanctioned WS in Columbus this weekend and during a PP game I incorrectly wrote the wrong # of my sub on the lineup card. In the second inning my pitcher lead off the inning with a single, and I inserted my sub as a courtesy runner. The opposing team pointed out the discrepancy to the ASA umpire who called my runner out. I asked the HP ump that I should be able to fix the mistake and continue play. It was the correct girl...I just wrote her # wrong on the scorecard...AND it's PP...AND it really isn't a big deal! Come on!!

I ask the forum members what is the rule here? I thought ASA rules state to "correct the mistake, continue play." I voiced this to the umpire who remained firm that the runner was out. Which was a big bummer for us.

Later that same game, I inserted that same sub into my RF's spot in the line up. The same umpire told me that I can only insert that sub into the pitchers spot because she was tied to the pitcher when she courtesy ran for her during the incident above. I politely pointed out that my sub was only tied to the pitcher as a courtesy runner and I could sub her for any spot in the lineup I choose. He told me to remove my sub from the field...which I did despite my protestations.

This one seems like a no-brainer...but, again I will ask....what is the rule here?

Thanks in advance for your replies

Joe Nay
Thunder Elite 03

 

[Dad of Daughters]

Simply put, with all due respect and without adding details, the umpire in question appears to have been a bit of a nightmare.

 

[BretMan2]

For an incorrect number on the line-up card, simply correct it and play on, no penalty.

The player that was used as a courtesy runner for the pitcher can be used as a substitute for any other player in the line-up, not just for the pitcher.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The player that was used as a courtesy runner for the pitcher can be used as a substitute for any other player in the line-up, not just for the pitcher.

However, not in the same half-inning (exception: there is an injury and no other subs available).

 

[yossarian]

Simply put, with all due respect and without adding details, the umpire in question appears to have been a bit of a nightmare.

Did he also Moon Walk and do the splits?

 

[Softballfarm]

Hi Everyone...

I failed to mention in this SAME game, my pitcher hit an opposing player with a pitch. The SAME umpire called the pitch a ball because the batter did not attempt to avoid the pitch. For a second I thought I should argue the rule even though my team benefited...but...given my previous two experiences, I decided to let this one go.

Joe Nay
Thunder Elite 03

 

[Softballfarm]

You had a sub in a PP game which wasn't really a big deal?

My "sub in a PP game" is a unique situation involving a special girl that my team has embraced this season when she is able to be with us. A travel ball and WS appearance for her, outside of my team taking her in, would probably never happen for her. Her specific situation is none of your business... but the parents of our 03 team and the graciousness of Mr Steiner of Thunder Elite make it possible for players like this to have opportunities others can't, or won't provide.

Joe Nay
Thunder Elite 03

 

[coachjwb]

Wow, that's messed up, Joe ... I hope you talked to the TD about it all at some point ...

 

[Softballfarm]

Thanks Jeff...

I did speak with Bill who was disappointed in what happened and, if you know Bill, he prefers that rulings like this fall on the side of maximizing the playing time of the player. The NAAS WS does a good job relaxing a lot of the rules to promote as much playing time as possible. It was a silly mistake on my part but that is already allowed for in the ASA rule book. Page 46. This is not a batting out of order or playing an illegal player under the # of another. I wrote the #4 down next to her name instead of the #8. Big deal!

 

[BretMan2]

Hi Everyone...

I failed to mention in this SAME game, my pitcher hit an opposing player with a pitch. The SAME umpire called the pitch a ball because the batter did not attempt to avoid the pitch. For a second I thought I should argue the rule even though my team benefited...but...given my previous two experiences, I decided to let this one go.

Joe Nay
Thunder Elite 03

This might have been a good call.

Some rule sets require an attempt to avoid the pitch (for instance, ASA). Some do not, if the pitch is entirely inside the batter's box.

I don't have any idea which rule set an "all sanction" tournament follows. There are LOTS of rule differences between the different sanctions.

 

[snoman76]

They used ASA umpires so I would only assume that they were modified ASA.

So if a batter is entirely inside their batters box and the pitcher throws a pitch that hits her in the leg (batter doesnt even flinch) she's not awarded first base per ASA rule?

 

[BretMan2]

They used ASA umpires so I would only assume that they were modified ASA.

So if a batter is entirely inside their batters box and the pitcher throws a pitch that hits her in the leg (batter doesnt even flinch) she's not awarded first base per ASA rule?

If the umpire judges no attempt was made to avoid the pitch, then there is no base award. The pitch is either a ball or strike depending on its relation to the strike zone.

This is how the rule was for ALL baseball and softball up until a few years ago. NCAA baseball and softball were the first ones to add the exception to the rule about when the ball is entirely inside the batter's box. The same rule was adopted at the high school level the next year, then by other amateur sanctioning bodies. But not by ASA.

 

[Louuuuu]

Did he also Moon Walk and do the splits?

Yossarian, I, for one, appreciate the Naked Gun reference...