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Ok you put in a courtesy runner for your pitcher and she ends up scoreing who get's the run scored ?
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The runner would be my guess, being once she is used as the runner she is tied to that batter unless she subs into the game for someone else.
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I looked in three different scoring guides- the NFHS rule book, the ASA rule book and the comprehensive on-line ATEC Scoring Guide- and none of them seem to address this.
What I had always heard in the past was that the run is credited to the player who actually batted and earned her way on base. That makes sense to me- the courtesy runner wouldn't even be on base if the original batter hadn't earned her way on base in the first place.
Conversely, any stolen bases acheived by the courtesy runner are credited to her, as the original batter had nothing to do with that.
What I had always heard in the past was that the run is credited to the player who actually batted and earned her way on base. That makes sense to me- the courtesy runner wouldn't even be on base if the original batter hadn't earned her way on base in the first place.
Conversely, any stolen bases acheived by the courtesy runner are credited to her, as the original batter had nothing to do with that.
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Thanks, thats what I thought
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So if she gets home on a passed ball, or from just being a faster or smarter baserunner. I know when we played WFC a few years ago you could use a bandit runner, she could run for anyone any time. Right off and back to the basses, she got credit for all the runs she scored. I miss that rule, it was so fun, but the bandit got real tired.
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The run goes to whoever touches the plate. I can think of only one instance a player not finishing is credited with a statistic. That would be if a substitute entered to complete an at bat, and I think it is dependent on the count. For example the count is full and the batter becomes injured. A BB or K would be credited to the original batter. If the count were 1-1 the AB would be credited to the sub.
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What if the courtesy runner steals home? If she earns the steals, didn't she earn the run? A conumdrum!
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FlyGirls ... that may well be, but curious as to your source. Since the courtesy runner is strictly a courtesy to keep the game moving and not a substitution, I have always given credit to the original batter for any runs scored. To answer fadge's question, I would give the courtesy runner credit for the stolen base, but the original batter credit for the run. Official pinch-runners of course would get credit for the run as well.
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Sidebar - We recently had the "tied to the batter" question in a 7th-Grade game (OHSAA). I thought runners were tied to the batter as well but there is some discussion about the difference between courtesy runners for pitcher/catcher and "substitute" runners. Is there a difference? There is also a position that any player on the bench (not already in the game) can be used at any time. Is it different for NFHS vs ASA?
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I do know if you use say #20 to run for the catcher, she cannot run for the pitcher as well Now if you have several subs you can use a different runner for the catcher next time, as long as she has not run for the pitcher. So the runner is tied to the batter, but the batter is not tied to the runner, provided you have enough layers on the bench.
Correct me if im wrong Bretman???
Correct me if im wrong Bretman???
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Jestineysdad ... that's basically right if you're talking high school rules ... the same courtesy runner can't run for both the pitcher and the catcher. TR_Out ... a player previously used as a courtesy runner can enter into the game as a substitute anywhere in the order later in the game, so they are not tied to the spot in the order they courtesy ran for. In high school ball, only players who have not officially been in the game already can be used as a courtesy runner. However, if you use a pinch-runner for someone other than the pitcher or catcher, that player is an official sub and she is tied to that spot in the order. So you should use a courtesy runner when running for the pitcher or catcher, and make sure the umpire knows that it is a courtesy and not a pinch runner.
In some designations (don't ask me which) or with some tournaments (up to the TD), a courtesy runner for a pitcher or catcher can be someone already in the game such as the last out. This becomes interesting if it's optional. Let's say for example that the catcher is my lead-off batter in the inning and gets on. The last out from the inning before is someone who is slower than my catcher ... I'm probably not going to courtesy run for her. But then let's say my speedy centerfielder bats next and strikes out. Now, I am going to let that speedy CF (the last out now) come in and run for the catcher.
In some designations (don't ask me which) or with some tournaments (up to the TD), a courtesy runner for a pitcher or catcher can be someone already in the game such as the last out. This becomes interesting if it's optional. Let's say for example that the catcher is my lead-off batter in the inning and gets on. The last out from the inning before is someone who is slower than my catcher ... I'm probably not going to courtesy run for her. But then let's say my speedy centerfielder bats next and strikes out. Now, I am going to let that speedy CF (the last out now) come in and run for the catcher.
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Makes sense sort of, but what if the batter singles with one out - she is slow as molasses in January and wouldn't know how to spell stolen base so the coach puts in a courtesy runner who then steals second and third. Next batter up hits a sac fly to score the runner from third and the next batter makes an out. Why shouldn't the courtesy be credited with scoring the run. You're right - the courtesy runner would never been on base without the batter getting the hit but the original batter never would have been on third base and in a position to score on the sac fly.
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Thanks all! That clears it up.
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Yeah, clear as mud!!!!!!
Someone send out the Sideliner signal, he will know.
Someone send out the Sideliner signal, he will know.
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I use a scoring program on the IPAD ESPN Iscore. It should be called scoring for dummies. You just touch the screen and answer questions it does the rest. It scores the "stolen bases and runs scored" to the player on the base. It has a choice for a "Courtesy Runner" and they will get the stats. Is it fair that your pitcher and or catcher get dinged for caught stealing.
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Huge difference between a courtesy runner and a substitute runner (I'm sure you already know that, Mike!
)A courtesy runner isn't tied to the batter, or tied to another player. She is tied to a position- either a pitcher or catcher. You could have multiple players assume the positions of pitcher or catcher throughout a game and those players might or might not be in the same spot of the batting order.
Example: Batter #1 is the pitcher. She gets on base and is replaced by a courtesy runner. Later in the game, batter #7 assumes the pitcher's position. If she gets on base, the same courtesy runner may run for her (assuming that the C/R hasn't been used as a sub up to that point). Later...batter #7 is replaced by a sub off the bench and the sub is now the pitcher. The same C/R can run for her if she gets on base. This illustrates that a C/R can possibly run not only for batters in different positions in the line-up, but for different individual players as well.
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Huge difference between a courtesy runner and a substitute runner (I'm sure you already know that, Mike!
A courtesy runner isn't tied to the batter, or tied to another player. She is tied to a position- either a pitcher or catcher. You could have multiple players assume the positions of pitcher or catcher throughout a game and those players might or might not be in the same spot of the batting order.
Example: Batter #1 is the pitcher. She gets on base and is replaced by a courtesy runner. Later in the game, batter #7 assumes the pitcher's position. If she gets on base, the same courtesy runner may run for her (assuming that the C/R hasn't been used as a sub up to that point). Later...batter #7 is replaced by a sub off the bench and the sub is now the pitcher. The same C/R can run for her if she gets on base. This illustrates that a C/R can possibly run not only for batters in different positions in the line-up, but for different individual players as well.
I thought you would be able to explain it better. Ill stick to power tools, and lumber. You call the games
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But what if you have a pinch-runner for the courtesy runner that ran for the catcher two at-bats ago???
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You can have a new/different courtesy runner if that's what you're asking ... just not one that courtesy ran for the pitcher.
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Ok just my two cents, but courtesy runner is credited with anything she does once on base. Steals, scores caught stealing etc.. Just looking at stats tonight and college player who is used as runner only, no at bats, has many runs scored.. Yes it could be that she was pinch runner some times, but no doubt that she is used mostly as courtesy and has many runs scored.. 99% sure runs are credited to runner.. I have been wrong before in my life.... once...LOL
