Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Dan Quisenberry Pitch

[ApogeeDemon]

Is this pitcher throwing sidearm? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilyDYsrSnMw

 

[lewam3]

No she is not. Not even close. Never got called for a sidearm delivery all summer, all the way to the ASA/USA National Championship game. Colorado Fireworks Championship game, Stingrays, ASA States, Laser Nation, Atlanta Legacy. Never once.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

maybe it just looks like it from that angle. I know the rule says "the wrist not farther from the body than the elbow"

 

[alborules]

There is no question that at part of the delivery the wrist goes outside the elbow...no question. Now get the umpire to call it. Just like speeding...it's only illegal if they pull you over and give you a ticket. Does the umpire need video evidence, a protractor and a confession of intent? Some of the written rules and a some girls "natural" body movements never coincide.

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

Great question, but it's a judgment call. same as balls & strikes. No proof there.
They don't need to prove it at all. They just need to think it to be so. The leaning of her hips to the left to clear her right elbow might be the first indication.

 

[lewam3]

I have no dog in this fight. The girl is obviously a solid player. She's playing on a top-notch team & is pitching in a very prestigious tournament.
Now...let's think about this from a black & white perspective. The ball is not supposed to come through outside of the wrist (which makes every under-hand curve ball deliveries illegal, I would think), but if you stop this video at 1:09, just before the ball is being released, you can clearly see the ball is beside the pitcher's hand & outside of the wrist. You may have to rewind & hit pause several times to catch the exact spot you are looking for.
I don't know who this player is and I certainly don't mean her any ill will.
Should this action be considered illegal? You stop the video at 1:09 & make the call.

The ball is beside the pitchers hand and outside the wrist... Yes it is. That is how you throw a curve ball. In fact the ONLY way you can throw a palm up curveball is to have the ball beside the hand outside of the wrist during the release phase.
If the wrist is outside the elbow, well that is a sidearm. You can clearly see at 1:09 that the wrist and elbow are in line and not outside of. Great technique, and if you ever watched Rahach's curveball from behind the catcher you can see how great technique translates into great movement.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Probably one of those, If I was her coach, I'd say it is legal, if I was coaching the other team, I'd protest

 

[Coach E.]

From the pitchers hand position it looks like she is throwing a curve ball. When her arm is at circle peak and going down to 3 quarters the ball is facing up with the thumb pointing to 2nd base. At pre-release she has a nice elbow leading her hand and tight to her body with her wrist in a soft curl which will give the illusion that the hand is out from the elbow. The other movement that will give an illusion of the hand being out from the elbow is when some pitchers snap the wrist they will have a tendency to chicken wing their arm making it look like something funky is going on with the pitch. I can't tell if she is doing that however This is not an illegal pitch and there is no way an umpire should ever call that an illegal pitch.

 

[Fairman]

The 2014 NFHS Rule Book; Rule 6 Pitching.

The only reference that would apply to your question is.....

Art.3.A legal delivery shall be ....

a. The pitcher has to release in front of her body.
b. The hand must be below the hip and the wrist not further from the body than the elbow.
c. Deliver the pitch on the throwing arm side of the body and not behind the back or between the legs.
d. The pitch is completed with the step toward the batter.

Art 4....The pitcher may use any windup desired provided:

I do not see any reference to the position of the wrist and the ball in any of these actual rules.
The hand could be the distance of the elbow from her hip, about 12-18" this is a lot.

This is not even close to an illegal pitch, (at least under the high school rules.)

 

[Comp]

This is what the rule is looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEQPwY1yDb8

 

[BulldawgsDirector]

I would tell the young lady that with the top notch talent, coaching, team, and competition she has to keep doing what shes doing.

 

[gobug]

Considering the player in question has signed with a D1 mid-major I don't think she's too concerned about the opinions on a softball discussion forum nor should she be.

In addition I have to admit that this thread doesn't sit real well with me for a couple of reasons. The pitcher was not the focus of the original you tube video that was sited so it wasn't meant to bring attention to her. Also, as a parent I wouldn't be real pleased with having my daughter called out like this, especially if me as the parent wasn't the one to post the original video. One thing if she's a player from say New Mexico, but she is a well known and well regarded local player. Just not right. JMHO

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Considering the player in question has signed with a D1 mid-major I don't think she's too concerned about the opinions on a softball discussion forum nor should she be.

In addition I have to admit that this thread doesn't sit real well with me for a couple of reasons. The pitcher was not the focus of the original you tube video that was sited so it wasn't meant to bring attention to her. Also, as a parent I wouldn't be real pleased with having my daughter called out like this, especially if me as the parent wasn't the one to post the original video. One thing if she's a player from say New Mexico, but she is a well known and well regarded local player. Just not right. JMHO

people are discussing technique. Not anything personal. Should this site remove all video's of all players including Bustos, Finch etc. when discussing technique? Signing with a DI has nothing to do with the discussion. Nobody is "calling out" anyone. Matter of fact, her name was never even mentioned.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Now...let's think about this from a black & white perspective. The ball is not supposed to come through outside of the wrist (which makes every under-hand curve ball deliveries illegal, I would think), but if you stop this video at 1:09, just before the ball is being released, you can clearly see the ball is beside the pitcher's hand & outside of the wrist.

Which FP rule set are you referencing? I don't know of any that regulate the position of the ball versus the wrist. ASA, NFHS and NCAA all say the hand has to be below the hip and the wrist not further from the body than the elbow. A quick check showed NSA FP rules are the same.

 

[Dawgsdad]

USSSA pitching rule F. Pitch must be an underhand motion.

 

[RP22]

Is this pitcher throwing sidearm? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilyDYsrSnMw

No................

 

[ApogeeDemon]

The original part was from a segment of the original game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPdAT37zyF8
This was a video posted publicly on youtube by the Strikeforce Catcher's parent. Take the video down? Are you guys from North Korea?

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

The ball is beside the pitchers hand and outside the wrist... Yes it is. That is how you throw a curve ball. In fact the ONLY way you can throw a palm up curveball is to have the ball beside the hand outside of the wrist during the release phase.
If the wrist is outside the elbow, well that is a sidearm. You can clearly see at 1:09 that the wrist and elbow are in line and not outside of. Great technique, and if you ever watched Rahach's curveball from behind the catcher you can see how great technique translates into great movement.

Again I applaud this young girl for her accomplishments. I want to make it clear that I am not posting anything negative about somebody publicly....that's a dangerous game to play. I see how this could be difficult to call for an umpire, because the angle of her arm (wrist being outside the elbow) is offset in appearance by the tilt of her spine. Lewam explained perfectly the palm up curveball & she could very well be throwing a curve ball. That short clip showed 8 pitches. Either all of them are curves, or this is her pitching style, which is absolutely fine. I umpired a game at Lasers 2 years ago & a 16U pitcher was killing the outside corner with a drop curve. It was called probably 75% of the pitches. She threw a LOT of curve balls. She moved the batters in on the plate with that, then pushed them back off with high inside screwballs. Very effective pitcher & her curve was crazy effective, so it is possible that all 8 pitches we saw in that video are curve balls.
Bottom line..I am happy for this young girl's achievements. Good for her!

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

Which FP rule set are you referencing? I don't know of any that regulate the position of the ball versus the wrist. ASA, NFHS and NCAA all say the hand has to be below the hip and the wrist not further from the body than the elbow. A quick check showed NSA FP rules are the same.

"Wrist is not supposed to come through outside of the elbow" is what I meant to type. If the wrist is outside the elbow, so will be the ball.
Brainfart and crappy word choices. Pttthththth. (grey haired moment)

 

[FastBat]

I took my earlier posts down. She looks very impressive, as her teammates do as well, wow is all I can say! Good luck to these young ladies!