Does softball really need a 16u division?

CoachTEA

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Folks - looking for feedback and opinions on this idea. Do we really need a 16u division? As someone who has been doing fastpitch for a while, we know the sport starts to lose players at 14u (other sports, jobs, relationships, not going to play in high school or college, etc.). I would propose softball as a whole offers the following divisions: 14u ball (in which a player/parents decide to play 1 or 2 years at) and HS division. Let's face it if players are playing high school ball (especially in Kentucky), they are competing against older kids as freshman and sophomores. I know several tournaments already do this and frankly I think it is a smart way to proceed. I currently coach two 18u teams and our second team is about 50% 16u eligible or younger. Thoughts?
 

CARDS

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Folks - looking for feedback and opinions on this idea. Do we really need a 16u division? As someone who has been doing fastpitch for a while, we know the sport starts to lose players at 14u (other sports, jobs, relationships, not going to play in high school or college, etc.). I would propose softball as a whole offers the following divisions: 14u ball (in which a player/parents decide to play 1 or 2 years at) and HS division. Let's face it if players are playing high school ball (especially in Kentucky), they are competing against older kids as freshman and sophomores. I know several tournaments already do this and frankly I think it is a smart way to proceed. I currently coach two 18u teams and our second team is about 50% 16u eligible or younger. Thoughts?
HS division of play has been around for a long time especially in fall ball. The trend in summer travel ball has went away from when teams played for a national and age specific teams mattered.
In todays softball at the travel level the game, organizations and families have moved pass age specific that in many areas and are more focused on showcase type of events that are not age specific or, will allow play ups. The only exception in Ohio I believe is Stingrays but even they may allow play ups now.

Add in a lot of TDs struggle to run events age or classification specific events and even recreational leagues are combining age groups to allow ladies opportunity to play as the numbers are declining at all levels.

With this said, IMO, If age groups start to disappear that is a bad sign for the sport of softball but it does appear that is the direction the sport is headed. .
 
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DanMaz

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yes you need a 16u division. You need structure in the sport. why eliminate an entire age group that would affect more than the very few you are referring to. kinda like the LGBTQXYZ is .01% of the population but everything these days resolves around them and whatever the hell they want think say and so on... SMH.
 

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16u division is needed. IMO
They need that division 15-16u to build more IQ , Maturity, Strength, power, just to name a few things.
If you're an A level 15/16u team playing a TRUE 18u A team theres a signifigant difference in strength, and all those other things.

I mean i guess they could build all those things playing HS division but...... The real issue with our sport right now too many TURD Teams!!!
More TURD Wannabe teams forming daily and you have Org leaders wanting to make money off EVERY team in the Org, even though they do absolutely nothing to help your team! Oh sorry, you are wearing some sweet threads!!!


Directors need to STOP letting whoever is willing to pay in their events! They are just worried about $$$$$!! If it's a showcase take TRUE A level teams.
 

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its ALL about the money. More than ever before
 

HITTER23

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16u division is needed. IMO
They need that division 15-16u to build more IQ , Maturity, Strength, power, just to name a few things.
If you're an A level 15/16u team playing a TRUE 18u A team theres a signifigant difference in strength, and all those other things.

I mean i guess they could build all those things playing HS division but...... The real issue with our sport right now too many TURD Teams!!!
More TURD Wannabe teams forming daily and you have Org leaders wanting to make money off EVERY team in the Org, even though they do absolutely nothing to help your team! Oh sorry, you are wearing some sweet threads!!!


Directors need to STOP letting whoever is willing to pay in their events! They are just worried about $$$$$!! If it's a showcase take TRUE A level teams.
Do you think any tourney directors will pass up tourney fees and the prospect of not filling it out to where they profit the most so they can have a legit level tourney? You can count the tournies that have that kind of clout now. And then, theres still some teams in those you could call "fillers".
 

Passion4theGame

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Do you think any tourney directors will pass up tourney fees and the prospect of not filling it out to where they profit the most so they can have a legit level tourney? You can count the tournies that have that kind of clout now. And then, theres still some teams in those you could call "fillers".
You are Absolutely Correct.
 

Tallmadge Force Gold

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I mean i guess they could build all those things playing HS division but...... The real issue with our sport right now too many TURD Teams!!!
More TURD Wannabe teams forming daily and you have Org leaders wanting to make money off EVERY team in the Org, even though they do absolutely nothing to help your team! Oh sorry, you are wearing some sweet threads!!!


Directors need to STOP letting whoever is willing to pay in their events! They are just worried about $$$$$!! If it's a showcase take TRUE A level teams.
I couldn't disagree more. What we need is more girls playing softball because it is a great sport. What we need less of is people who feel superior to others for arbitrary reasons. "True A Level" teams play great softball for their age group but play inferior softball compared to the truly great players in the NCAA. It is only a matter of perspective that allows these parents and coaches to look down their noses at others playing this great sport. If I want to watch great softball, I will watch the D1 NCAA softball tournament. If I want to watch the great game of softball for the pure joy of it, I can watch any level of play and enjoy it.

Tennis was at one time an incredibly popular sport with people waiting for hours to get on a court. Now those same courts are being turned into pickleball courts. Hopefully this elitist attitude among the "true A level crowd" won't cause the same downward spiral to affect softball. Maybe these A level coaches could donate a little more time to the local rec league rather than looking for that marginally bigger, faster, stronger softball player to replace a past recruit.
 

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I couldn't disagree more. What we need is more girls playing softball because it is a great sport. What we need less of is people who feel superior to others for arbitrary reasons. "True A Level" teams play great softball for their age group but play inferior softball compared to the truly great players in the NCAA. It is only a matter of perspective that allows these parents and coaches to look down their noses at others playing this great sport. If I want to watch great softball, I will watch the D1 NCAA softball tournament. If I want to watch the great game of softball for the pure joy of it, I can watch any level of play and enjoy it.

Tennis was at one time an incredibly popular sport with people waiting for hours to get on a court. Now those same courts are being turned into pickleball courts. Hopefully this elitist attitude among the "true A level crowd" won't cause the same downward spiral to affect softball. Maybe these A level coaches could donate a little more time to the local rec league rather than looking for that marginally bigger, faster, stronger softball player to replace a past recruit.
Maybe these A level coaches could donate a little more time to the local rec league rather than looking for that marginally bigger, faster, stronger softball player to replace a past recruit. ???
MORE TIME DONATED??? Thats funny stuff.

Please try to realize how much time any coach and especially A level coaches "donate" their time....... not sure how much time is left in their very busy life they already donate their time for free.
 

Passion4theGame

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I couldn't disagree more. What we need is more girls playing softball because it is a great sport. What we need less of is people who feel superior to others for arbitrary reasons. "True A Level" teams play great softball for their age group but play inferior softball compared to the truly great players in the NCAA. It is only a matter of perspective that allows these parents and coaches to look down their noses at others playing this great sport. If I want to watch great softball, I will watch the D1 NCAA softball tournament. If I want to watch the great game of softball for the pure joy of it, I can watch any level of play and enjoy it.

Tennis was at one time an incredibly popular sport with people waiting for hours to get on a court. Now those same courts are being turned into pickleball courts. Hopefully this elitist attitude among the "true A level crowd" won't cause the same downward spiral to affect softball. Maybe these A level coaches could donate a little more time to the local rec league rather than looking for that marginally bigger, faster, stronger softball player to replace a past recruit.
I agree giving back at the rec level is very valuable. Building a solid rec league in each community is only going to grow the sport.
The past 3 seasons I have went and coached tball and coach pitch 6u and it is so MUCH FUN! teaching the basic fundamentals of the game and just teaching them to have fun and love the game has been awesome. Like Dan said above, we all donate alot of time and its tough sometimes to give back to the local rec leagues. But most of these kids started in their local rec league so i encourage my kids to help those younger teams when they have time. Umpire or get with a team and give back.
 

CARDS

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I agree giving back at the rec level is very valuable. Building a solid rec league in each community is only going to grow the sport.
The past 3 seasons I have went and coached tball and coach pitch 6u and it is so MUCH FUN! teaching the basic fundamentals of the game and just teaching them to have fun and love the game has been awesome. Like Dan said above, we all donate alot of time and its tough sometimes to give back to the local rec leagues. But most of these kids started in their local rec league so i encourage my kids to help those younger teams when they have time. Umpire or get with a team and give back.
Building back recreational leagues will be a challenge.
In a lot of areas communities have repurposed the fields or, the fields were taken over by organizations for other sports or tournament play.

As far as organizations helping on the recreational front. The REDS donate a ton of money to maintain 60+ fields around greater Cincinnati so boys and girls have a safe field to play on. Transportation to get inner city kids to the academy, spring, summer fall and winter programs for all ages some at no or low cost, top notch instruction and college planning and while it has helped keep kids playing it has not increased the numbers much in softball.

The problem is even at no cost to play, softball is struggling to attract players and get coaches. Baseball is still doing ok but it too is down on the recreational level.

I think as others have posted there may be some issues with community members pulling away from local recreational to form or start local travel teams that tend to end up getting placed in events they cannot compete in but IMO that is a small percentage overall contributing to the decline of a recreational league. The ladies just are not playing.

Field utilization has to start within the community at the primary level (elementary) to try to get some more interest from the recreational organization leadership. This is another area that has taken a hit with finance issues and commitment to the purpose of the organizations.
This has to start in January with information kids can take home from school and be placed on social media and school pages.

Our local school district at one time would add to news letters reminders about recreational sports sign ups now they struggle to communicate what's going on at the schools.
Another area hurting recreational ball is cost...softball is expensive compared to other sports for girls, expensive to maintain fields etc. Softball also requires more thought and repetition and is harder to learn than other popular sports.

Its sad to dive by some of the best facilities in the state that Colerain has and, see them not used. At one time this huge rivalries between other township organizations (we had 5 at one time), catholic leagues, and neighboring areas. Now just the catholic leagues are the only ones with full schedules and they have numbers issues as well.
 
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