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Two seperate thoughts/observations: I think defense in this situation gets unfair advantage, as their area to field a bad throw is effectively squared if allowed to use both bags. Second, umpires need to actually PAY ATTENTION to the position of the 1st baseman, as we had two girls injured two years ago at Stingray playing an Indiana team whose 1b was bigger than me(no joking) and who planted herself ACROSS the bag on every play. Umpire says she is entitled to her position and WE have to adjust....When you have a team built for speed and small ball, having Tony Siragusa playing first is bad news... 
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In Ohio, the double first base is optional. The home team can decide to either use it or not use it.
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We teach girls how to slide... safely.
We teach them NOT to swing bats randomly in close company... for safety.
We even teach 10 year old pitchers how to throw the ball over the plate...
Why is it that we aren't teaching them how to run to first base... safely?
...or defensive coverage at first base?
Seriously??? Orange base in high school play??
So... what do girls do when the orange base suddenly disappears? Do they all of a sudden instinctively know how to play with just a single base?
IMO, a double first base is fine for recreational ball where kids don't always get proper training. It makes perfect sense to have "special" rules to keep the kids from injuring each other. But girls choosing to play competitive tournament fastpitch or high school??? I guess you could also carry over the "no stealing home" rule from recreational ball too...
Kids aren't stupid. Teach them properly and they will surprise you how "safe" (and competitive) they can play!
We teach them NOT to swing bats randomly in close company... for safety.
We even teach 10 year old pitchers how to throw the ball over the plate...
Why is it that we aren't teaching them how to run to first base... safely?
...or defensive coverage at first base?
Seriously??? Orange base in high school play??
So... what do girls do when the orange base suddenly disappears? Do they all of a sudden instinctively know how to play with just a single base?
IMO, a double first base is fine for recreational ball where kids don't always get proper training. It makes perfect sense to have "special" rules to keep the kids from injuring each other. But girls choosing to play competitive tournament fastpitch or high school??? I guess you could also carry over the "no stealing home" rule from recreational ball too...
Kids aren't stupid. Teach them properly and they will surprise you how "safe" (and competitive) they can play!
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Double bag or not, I don't care but drives me nuts when ump's over-think the rules like the earlier poster from central ohio.
We were at an ASA event at Tealtown (Milford OH) in May. Drop 3rd strike roles to the 1st base side of backstop. Catcher fields and throws to the right side of orange first base. Defense does a stretch across the two bags at last second in front of our runner. Leaves no where for runner to go and no time to even react. Runner beats bad throw but there is minor collision. Field ump calls safe but gray haired lady ump behind plate runs out and either overturns call or bullies kid in field to overturn on interference. She says runner should have avoided defense but couldn't explain how. Because it couldn't be done. That had a major impact on the game. Drives me nuts.
We were at an ASA event at Tealtown (Milford OH) in May. Drop 3rd strike roles to the 1st base side of backstop. Catcher fields and throws to the right side of orange first base. Defense does a stretch across the two bags at last second in front of our runner. Leaves no where for runner to go and no time to even react. Runner beats bad throw but there is minor collision. Field ump calls safe but gray haired lady ump behind plate runs out and either overturns call or bullies kid in field to overturn on interference. She says runner should have avoided defense but couldn't explain how. Because it couldn't be done. That had a major impact on the game. Drives me nuts.
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And we expect them to run to three other "single" bases where force plays might be happening at any time!
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amen
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A perfect example of a play where the defense initiated the contact and the runner should not be held accountable.
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I don't think it's so much the single base as much as it is the dynamics of a close play at first.
Runners going all out trying to beat the bang-bang play.
Fielders making an attempt to get that all important out (with varying degrees of accuracy).
1st baseman being forced to react to these throws, all while being expected to keep their body under control at all cost.
There is a lot going on. That orange bag just gives everyone a little room for error. Nothing wrong with that.
Everyone makes mistakes and this is just a little insurance. Can anyone say Albert Pujols???? And he's been doing it for 20 years and gets paid millions to perfect his craft.
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Maybe not the best example...but a good try! Pujols was pulled into the runner's path by a bad throw and the runner was in the running lane- exactly where a runner would be if there was a double base on this play. This same collison would have happened if a double base had been in use.
The worst injury I've ever seen at first base was in a game that did have the double base. Runner was heading straight for the orange base. Fielder took the throw, then slid her foot across the bag, onto the orange base. The runner got tripped, went forward, put her hands out when she hit the ground and broke her wrist.
The "safety base" wasn't so darn safe on that one!
This play is a perfect example of why we should have a triple first base.
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This play is a perfect example of why we should have a triple first base.
Probably should have a triple base at every base, somebody might get hurt......
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I would tend to agree with this.
Which bases have the most collisions? First and home. Both happen to be bases that runners can legally overrun, so they're going full speed when they cross them. At all the others, they have to slow down to not overrun them, so they're either not going full out or they are sliding.
Home plate probably even promotes more of a "I'm going to get there and nobody is going to stop me" mentality than does first base. At first you have runners thinking, "I have to get on base safely before I can score". At home, the thought is, "I'm going to score!".
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This play is a perfect example of why we should have a triple first base.
Triple base. You may be onto something.
I will respectfully disagree about the orange bag. If I were a numbers man, I'd say that the orange bag prevents more collisions/injuries then it causes.
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I think it is a lot harder to make close calls with a double first base. I also don't see any safety improvements with it. I oversee a 1300 youth rec coed slowpitch program of kids from kindergarten thru high school and we use the single base with very few problems.
I think the base manufacturers have done a very good job of promoting it and selling it--a double first base by itself costs as much as 3 single bases. next you will see them selling one for 2 d base saying that it would avoid spike injuies, etc
Sammy said it correctly--just teach the kids.
I think the base manufacturers have done a very good job of promoting it and selling it--a double first base by itself costs as much as 3 single bases. next you will see them selling one for 2 d base saying that it would avoid spike injuies, etc
Sammy said it correctly--just teach the kids.
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Oh, I agree with that. I'm just saying that even with the double base you can still have nasty collisions that the double base won't prevent.
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And here I thought that it was just me...
Coming from a baseball background, I was used to and totally comfortable with making "bang-bang" calls at first with a single base. When double first bases were first being used, I felt that it changed my perception, or timing or...something...that was kind of hard to put a finger on. It took some getting used to...but I think that I'm used to it now.
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I think this is spot on.
Here's a scenario that happened with my 12u team this year. We were playing defense and a ground ball was hit to my 3rd baseman who bobbled it before making the throw to first. The runner was ruled safe by the field umpire. For whatever reason the girl thought she was out and started jogging back to her dugout down the first base foul side of the field. Her coaches started yelling for her to return to the base and of course we yelled for our first baseman to tag her. The girl returned to the safety base and then was tagged by our 1st baseman. She was ruled safe because the tag was late.
I called time out and argued that once she was safe she was obligated to return to the white base and not the safety base. The field umpire immediately hesitated and I could tell he was thinking he blew the call. We had a large lead so I didn't argue over passionately and he allowed the call to stand. After the game he said he thought he missed the call.
I think so too. Am I right?
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My first question would be: Which sanctioning body?
Back when the double first bases were first used, the rule about them was pretty much "the defense uses the white, the offense uses the orange- period".
Over the years, it became apparent that there were plays where forcing the players to use one base or the other might actually create bigger safety issues than the double base was meant to prevent.
Recognizing this, some sanctioning bodies revised their rules. Others haven't.
For instance, in high school or ASA games, once the batter-runner passes first base, the safety base is no longer considered to be two separate bases. Rather, it becomes one big base and the players can use any portion of it.
Under those rules, I would have this runner safe, as she would be allowed to return either base.
For different sanctioning bodies...your mileage might vary!
Back when the double first bases were first used, the rule about them was pretty much "the defense uses the white, the offense uses the orange- period".
Over the years, it became apparent that there were plays where forcing the players to use one base or the other might actually create bigger safety issues than the double base was meant to prevent.
Recognizing this, some sanctioning bodies revised their rules. Others haven't.
For instance, in high school or ASA games, once the batter-runner passes first base, the safety base is no longer considered to be two separate bases. Rather, it becomes one big base and the players can use any portion of it.
Under those rules, I would have this runner safe, as she would be allowed to return either base.
For different sanctioning bodies...your mileage might vary!
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It was USSSA.
That's interesting and is why over the years I don't ever argue definitively about anything. There are so many ways to interpret things.
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USSSA rewrote their safety base rules a few years ago. Basically, they copied the ASA and high school rule almost word-for-word. So this runner should have been safe.
