Good coaching or poor sportsmanship?

[Itaintsoft]

Late in a timed bracket game ( 4 minutes left)team A (home team up by 5) coming up to bat, team B tells team c'mon guys 1,2,3, pitcher I need you throwing strikes. Team A first batter waves bat around toward pitcher then puts it on her shoulder until 2 strikes called then GO to SS. 2nd batter same bat wave then on shoulder until 2 strikes then K swinging. 3rd batter comes into box with one shoe completely untied - no resemblance of any knot anywhere. Coaches all start yelling "TIE YOUR SHOE! Batter drops bat, takes gloves off one at a time and struggles to figure out tying a shoe, picks one glove up stands up and puts it on, squats down for other glove and looks like OJ putting it on, squats down for bat as time expires. Thoughts

 

[ech92]

All the stalling crap does is take playing time away from the girls! We could easily name a few teams that do this on a regular bases. We all want to win but the blatant stalling is ridiculous!

 

[coachjwb]

Yes, ridiculous ... I am OK with what the first 2 batters did (i.e., taking until you get a strike or two), but not what the 3rd batter did, obviously with the pre-planning of the coaches. If you're proud of winning like that, that's up to you, Coach ... but just ask yourself one thing ... what did you just teach your young players with that?

 

[BretMan2]

I'm good with the first two too...taking pitches isn't illegal and batter's have the right to not swing their bats, be it the first inning or the last.

The shoestring stuff...if a team is blatantly stalling the umpire needs to take control and speed them along. If the coach has a problem with that, usually just reminding him that the rules allow a forfeit to be granted for tactics designed to stall the game. That usually takes care of it.

But, generally, I don't have a huge problem with a team using LEGAL strategy to stretch things out. Pitching changes, making substitutions, taking pitches- these are all legal moves that teams are afforded by the rules.

I know that we sometimes ask, "What is this teaching young players?". Maybe it teaches them that you just had the same amount of time as the other team had, and the same number of at-bats and same number of outs as the other team had, but the other team must have performed better than you did on this day. Next time, perform better and maybe you won't be at the mercy of the clock.

 

[wow]

But, generally, I don't have a huge problem with a team using LEGAL strategy to stretch things out. Pitching changes, making substitutions, taking pitches- these are all legal moves that teams are afforded by the rules.

I know that we sometimes ask, "What is this teaching young players?". Maybe it teaches them that you just had the same amount of time as the other team had, and the same number of at-bats and same number of outs as the other team had, but the other team must have performed better than you did on this day. Next time, perform better and maybe you won't be at the mercy of the clock.

The clock is part of the game, so using it is a strategy. Not saying how you do doesn't matter, but like is stated above if within the limits, Its fine. I have seen Umps stop clocks for excessive nonsense whether flops or excessive arguing. I think strategy is a big part of the game whether you are a two strike hitter/bunter, time manager, or pitch arguer. Everyone plays things differently. The clock is no exception. Manage it or it will manage you.

 

[WalkOffHR]

My thoughts are this...rarely are the timed games a good thing. I think games should be at least 90 minutes. Timeouts are just that...same as in other timed sports. Time stops. That would eliminate the silly stuff. Also, hitters keep one foot in the box and when an out is made, get the ball back to the pitcher and infielders stay put (no going to the mound each time to high five each other).

These 75-80 minute games end up being 5-6 innings. Sometimes only 2 at bats for hitters.

If it's pool play and everyone advances to bracket play...fine shorten the games. But bracket play should be about seeing which team is best for a full 7 innings. Not which team is best at avoiding playing the actual game.

 

[Itaintsoft]

Great post. Agree 100%

Not sure how people are equating purposely untying a players shoe and sending her out like that to "time managment" but....

I do agree with going out there and outplaying them and its never an issue tho.

 

[coachjwb]

BretMan ... always greatly respect your opinion, but with regards to what is it teaching your players ... it sounds like you're talking about what was taught to the losing team (by the opposing coach no less) ... I am asking what is taught to your own team? That it's OK to do anything you can to win, even if it disrespects and makes a mockery of the game? If I go make a mound visit or take a time out to talk to a batter in such a situation (albeit legal), I should have a really good reason to do so, and stalling isn't a good one, nor is "because I can". Personally I would be ashamed of my kids' coach if I saw them pull such a move, and I certainly wouldn't let my DD try out for another team whose coach I saw do this either ... it shows that their priorities are misplaced, and I have a responsibility to my child to not put them in a situation with an adult who has misplaced priorities.

 

[Hilliarddad3]

A very wise man named "Tunney" once said, if we can't win it in regulation the normal way, we don't deserve to win it...... That always stuck with me......

 

[brownsfan]

We faced a team last year that probably was the best stall I's ever see. We left ticked off as this was a bracket game. We gave up a few runs in the first inning but couldn't time up their pitcher up. When we finally did, we were down a run but the visitor team. About 10 minutes to go, Each batter took at least 3 minutes. The coach had them step out of the box after each pitch to get a new play. Each play was different too. We were going nuts.

 

[3ballbratz]

If you're down 5 runs I don't think you can blame the clock

 

[BretMan2]

We faced a team last year that probably was the best stall I's ever see. We left ticked off as this was a bracket game. We gave up a few runs in the first inning but couldn't time up their pitcher up. When we finally did, we were down a run but the visitor team. About 10 minutes to go, Each batter took at least 3 minutes. The coach had them step out of the box after each pitch to get a new play. Each play was different too. We were going nuts.

Here again, umpires need to take control. Some rule sets require the batter to keep one foot in the box between pitches. Most say that that the batter has 10 seconds to get set in the box and call for a penalty strike if they don't.

Just enforcing those two simple rules can help solve the problem.

 

[Fairman]

Our Tournament went to 1:20 games finish the inning and it has worked out extremely well. It eliminates this kind of gamesmanship.
We were concerned that it would get the schedule out of wack but after several years it seems to work well and does cause not be a big problem with the schedule.

 

[JoeA1010]

Timed games are just horrible. How about instead of a 6-game guarantee with time limits, we just have 4-game guarantees with no time limits and space the games 2:15 apart? Every once in a while, you'll get a 10-inning game that might throw the timing off, but so be it.

I join even more now with the college coaches who would like to see teams playing to win, including pool play games, and that means a full 7-inning game. Right now, game strategy is pretty much non-existent in the games we watch. Outfielders and infielders who should be playing in or back or wherever might as well be standing in concrete in their position, runners who should be aggressive are conservative and vice versa, almost no baserunners know how to run the bases, defenses don't know when to go for a lead out and when to take the easy out, etc.

 

[manitoudan]

^ I cant " like" that post enough . Esp the baserunning . Its a totally lost art .

 

[Captain_Thunder]

Our Tournament went to 1:20 games finish the inning and it has worked out extremely well. It eliminates this kind of gamesmanship.
We were concerned that it would get the schedule out of wack but after several years it seems to work well and does cause not be a big problem with the schedule.

My 18U team last year usually got 7 innings in within 75 minutes............So majority of time, the 80 minute limit was great for us & lots at the upper ages.
But for many & at all ages - doesn't matter if it is 60, 70, 75, 80, or 90 minute games - The clock will play a factor if you don't get to the 7th inning prior to that point & it there will end up being gamesmanship being played.........

I do want to give a shout-out to the 10U Cannons team! Last month we were playing them in a tournament. Only a few minutes left on the clock & I was hurrying my 9U team up to get 3 outs as quick as possible. The Coach hustled his players to the batter's box & kept pace with my team. That was very classy on his part!!! Last weekend we had about the same amount of time & the coach stopped to talk with his player twice & tie her shoe once before a 2nd pitch was even thrown - I just yelled for my team to come in & line up........lol

 

[wow]

Timed games are just horrible.

Outfielders and infielders who should be playing in or back or wherever might as well be standing in concrete in their position, runners who should be aggressive are conservative and vice versa, almost no baserunners know how to run the bases, defenses don't know when to go for a lead out and when to take the easy out, etc.

Agree about the timed games. Its a mess. Revert back is even worse!

Game strategy is critical. The higher level you play the more base running/ infields/ outfield play matters. Pop ups kill me. When to run, be half way, stay on the bag. Lost opportunities for sure. You can practice all you want. There is no replacement for game strategy. The other side of this is how players react to the pressure. Unless you have been there you cant know, but the more times you're there the better you will deal.

 

[Jkb69933]

Timed games are just horrible. How about instead of a 6-game guarantee with time limits, we just have 4-game guarantees with no time limits and space the games 2:15 apart? Every once in a while, you'll get a 10-inning game that might throw the timing off, but so be it.

I join even more now with the college coaches who would like to see teams playing to win, including pool play games, and that means a full 7-inning game. Right now, game strategy is pretty much non-existent in the games we watch. Outfielders and infielders who should be playing in or back or wherever might as well be standing in concrete in their position, runners who should be aggressive are conservative and vice versa, almost no baserunners know how to run the bases, defenses don't know when to go for a lead out and when to take the easy out, etc.

I agree with this 100%. What is the point of playing a bunch of half games? Would much rather play a few less games but play full games or at least close to full. Sometimes your only getting in 4 innings. Like said by Fairman, at least go 80 minutes and finish the inning. Drop dead and revert back play is ridiculous.

 

[Captain_Thunder]

I agree with this 100%. What is the point of playing a bunch of half games? Would much rather play a few less games but play full games or at least close to full. Sometimes your only getting in 4 innings. Like said by Fairman, at least go 80 minutes and finish the inning. Drop dead and revert back play is ridiculous.

In early Spring or Fall, I can see where Drop Dead may need to be used in PP, due to daylight. But it should be at least 80-90 minutes if using it!!!
But if tournaments are doing Drop Dead in the Summer, then everyone needs to stop going to those events!!!

 

[manitoudan]

90 min instead of 80 would help complete a ton more games. Even get to third inning of most 10u games. JUST KIDDING !!!