High school softball participation rates down dramatically in Ohio

[wow]

Let's just take the money part of it.

Pay to Play...if you're a multi-sport athlete and play kickball or basketball, the money not might be there for a 2nd or 3rd sport. In addition to paying over $200, we're required to sell $100 worth of coupon books and collect $150 of hit-a-thon money.

DING, DING DING we have a winner! Some schools are much more than that Plus additional fundraising on top of that. WHY? Elite travel teams are in this range, so why spend the money to play at a low level for more money? Its fairly simple answer just we don't want to compare Club ball with HS. Couple the unlikely event your HS team can play with the top 10 or so schools in the state, why pay $1000 or more ( all in) for a lackluster experience? Nah.

Here is my best guess as to the phenomenon the OP is seeing:
(1) Lacrosse is simply becoming MORE interesting to the lower end/middle of the pack softball players. This sport has become increasingly more popular over the past 15 years and so you would expect to see it compete and take away athletes that otherwise may have gone to softball in the past.
(2) Softball is becoming MORE highly technical (pointed out numerous times in this thread) and so the entry level skill set required to experience even a small level of success at the high school level is now higher than ever.
(3) If you're a great pure athlete like Raidian mentions, maybe with the insane increase in travel softball teams in Ohio you have a lot more players opting to get a broader experience (i.e play summer travel softball, play high school track/lacrosse). Remember, the rapid increase in travel teams has not been at the top of the heap, but rather the middle to bottom which would attract more of those types of players.

1. Have not seen ANY players leave the sport to play lacrosse from travel. HS yes. This makes sense.

2. The skill set to play is more elevated then ever before. Never have I seen such a disparity between players than HS softball. Kids who play club level are far ahead in both skill and IQ. Softball is and has elevated to a 9-10 month proposition. Most HS players, who don't play travel, simply will get discouraged and leave the game. Check out the thread on best states for recruited kids. No wonder the highest numbers come from warm weather states. They play extended seasons compared to OH.

3. Simple math more travel teams at lower levels allow less talented kids to try other things outside of HS season. They don't need to play HS when they can make 1 of like 17 teams in the county, who will play a very highly competitive schedule, of course. Why play one sport when you can do soccer/VB in fall, basketball in winter, Track/Lacross in spring and softball in summer!!! Think of all the scholarships DD will receive!

If you combine the above reasons with the politics of HS ball you can see why the numbers in HS ball are down. Conversely I would argue and based on the number of teams the sport IS growing and in fact not shrinking based on teams and number of participants in travel ball.

One question. Anyone ever seen a kid offered a collegiate scholarship from HS softball alone?

 

[JoeA1010]

My sense of it is that the rise of travel ball caused a huge decline in house teams and it is the bottom half of what were once those house teams that now play parks and rec for awhile and then drop out of softball by 6th to 9th grade. Back when Columbus suburbs like Hilliard, Worthington, Westerville, etc., had anywhere from two to four house teams per age group, those girls naturally stayed together and continued on into high school ball. Maybe a few from each town played travel ball, but most didn't. I'm sure the situation was the same in most Ohio cities, big and small.

During the decade of 2000-2010, the house teams just died out for the most part as girls who were able to do so moved on to travel teams. And it's some of those bottom-half tier girls from what would have been today's house teams who are not playing high school ball because the tie with their classmates is no longer there and the gap in talent level is now huge, as one group from the old house teams is playing travel ball and the other is playing parks and rec.

 

[Coach Tony]

Was away for a day and came back to a lot of great responses. I certainly think it is a combination of things (in no particular order):
- Talent disparity between travel players and non-travel players
- The fact that substitutes are not used as often as in other sports (basketball, soccer, etc.). Compare this to the "everybody gets to compete" setup of track and field.
- The entertain me culture
- Cost to play - A previous school I coached at had a $375 participation fee to play
- The overall difficulty of the sport
- JO volleyball tournaments

Most of these have already been alluded to. I would agree that overall the quality of play (in terms of individual skills) has improved over the time frame we are referencing, however, I feel that travel ball has been watered down, meaning the talent is spread across many different teams. This is inevitable with the proliferation of travel organizations that have come with the growth of travel softball. But that is another discussion all together.

I can say that in my experience Northeast Ohio the most devastating thing that can happen to a Division IV, III or II high school's softball program is to have their school add a lacrosse program.

 

[Pacerdad57]

$250 ~ $400 !!! I did not realize participation fee's were that high - Holy Crap !!!
Ours are I think $75 and there is a cap per family no where near that kind of number.

Yes that that would greatly limit participation...

we have a $35 fee, but some schools in our area are well above $500 ($625 or so....)

 

[Top Gun]

My daughter has had a new head coach every year. The politics and the athletic boosters influence is absurd in our school district.

 

[reagansdaddy]

I spent a number of years as a head varsity track coach a few years ago. I think one thing that influences the numbers is that there aren't many (if any) elementary level track programs in the state. Girls who want to play a spring/summer sport play softball for the most part during their elementary years. So, when they get into MS they have a spring choice for the first time. Because of this familiarity, girls may stick with softball for a couple years but if they aren't having the success they want (due to many of the factors discussed above), they now have the option to move over to track which they didn't have until 7th grade.

 

[Louuuuu]

When I saw that this topic got three pages of responses, I had to partake. Very good topic. Well researched by the O.P. And I must say I agree with almost every comment made. (Which is rare.)

 

[Fastpitch04]

My DD is now in 7th grade and has played travel ball going on 4 years, last year we watched a few JV/HS teams. It was sad. I know for the most part her 12u team could have beat some of the JV teams and gave some of the HS teams a run for their money. My daughter said then that she was not sure she wants to play in HS after seeing that. She played MS ball for the school and as a class A travel ball pitcher at times it wasn't even fair to have her pitch. We had a few of the other teams complain about her pitching- normally she would only pitch 2 innings. I know I have heard some travel ball coaches telling their girls not to play HS ball as it makes them get use to a much slower, lower competition game play. I am hopefull my DD plays HS ball as I feel it is important to lend her talents to her school but time will tell.

 

[CARDS]

My DD is now in 7th grade and has played travel ball going on 4 years, last year we watched a few JV/HS teams. It was sad. I know for the most part her 12u team could have beat some of the JV teams and gave some of the HS teams a run for their money. My daughter said then that she was not sure she wants to play in HS after seeing that. She played MS ball for the school and as a class A travel ball pitcher at times it wasn't even fair to have her pitch. We had a few of the other teams complain about her pitching- normally she would only pitch 2 innings. I know I have heard some travel ball coaches telling their girls not to play HS ball as it makes them get use to a much slower, lower competition game play. I am hopefull my DD plays HS ball as I feel it is important to lend her talents to her school but time will tell.

If your DD is a pitcher that is the number one thing most High School teams lack.... Thus, the quality of overall play generally suffers.. (It happens at all levels). Having a strong pitcher/leader in the circle can make a HS team a league contender, Throw in a strong catcher and a few hitters and you could compete for state. (Seen it happen a several divisions of play including D1)

IMO, The decision to play in High School should be 100% the decision of the player/family. If your travel ball coach is suggesting high school age ladies should not play high school ball because playing 20+ games a year will develop bad habits that coach does not think much of his players or is a control freak...
From what I have seen over the years is... players play...The good ones are good before and after high school. Most come away from the experience a better player and have lasting memories. My DD played a variety of sports growing up including VB,FB,BB,SB,MX and decided on three sports when she made HS, Golf Fall Bowling winter, Softball spring. She continued to play all three in college and I think most athletes have the same experiences.

As far as pay to play fees most School Districts have policies outside of the fees EX: a family cap of $400...So, say a year long fee of $300 for extra curricular activities per student but a family has 3 kids in district the total family expenses will not exceed $400. If a family/player is eligible for booster scholarships or is on "free or reduced lunch" they could pay $0...to play...
A lot of parents are unaware of the paperwork process because kids tend to not show up for pre season meetings or loose the documents they were given from the AD or coach and there are those few parents just to lazy to fill out the paperwork.

 

[MILEYSDAD]

I think Cobb is on to something though... I've been watching winterball at the Spano, Pinnacle and Lorain and there is a clear difference in the girls who play travel/tournament ball vs those who don't. There's also a quality difference in the regions too. I think some girls may feel it's just too much to catch up to some of the others. Some areas, especially my hometown, have almost zero travel teams to feed the HS program, and without that early exposure, by age 14/15 its too late.

 

[CARDS]

One question. Anyone ever seen a kid offered a collegiate scholarship from HS softball alone?

I would say only HS No...

High School and College camps Yes..
Naturally this would be the exception but watching the college world series they were doing a story of a Florida pitcher that was recruited from High school and camps. There are also those ladies that sign a NLI with little to no scholarship dollars offered that played HS and attended recruiting events.

The story below talks about young players receiving college interest while in middle school to their school athletic departments/coach. Most likely these ladies were spotted from a recruiting camp and may have played a level of travel ball but it is not discussed in the story. Most of the communication on the three students is through the students private school coach but the recruiting is "before" high school for a lot of these ladies for the major softball conferences.


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/soft...targets-of-top-tier-softball-programs/2275071

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I would say only HS No...

High School and College camps Yes..

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/soft...targets-of-top-tier-softball-programs/2275071

Cards - You are correct - I have never seen anyone recruited solely on HS play - They would have to have attended collage camps or clinics to get noticed.

 

[Heavy Hitter]

Cards - You are correct - I have never seen anyone recruited solely on HS play - They would have to have attended collage camps or clinics to get noticed.

I do know a girl who got noticed by a DI school because of high school ball. They keep an eye on her and started recruiting her during school seasons. Then they came and watched her several times during travel ball.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I do know a girl who got noticed by a DI school because of high school ball. They keep an eye on her and started recruiting her during school seasons. Then they came and watched her several times during travel ball.

This is very rare - Mostly because the high school and college seasons are at the same time -
I could see if the team were playing in states late in the year coaches may make time - Also I was talking about girls who are NOT playing travel, I'd have to bet the players affiliation with her travel team opened some doors for her as well.

 

[CARDS]

I do know a girl who got noticed by a DI school because of high school ball. They keep an eye on her and started recruiting her during school seasons. Then they came and watched her several times during travel ball.

Very Rare...This has to be a local small D1 school to your area...Or, the young lady attended a camp at the school that stirred some interest or as cpbb_of_fury stated she was noticed by play at the travel ball level...

 

[FastBat]

I would say only HS No...
High School and College camps Yes..

Ok, say they got recruited solely based on HS play. That's fine, but how is it possible they would be good enough play at a higher level? Isn't that really why the players play in the summer? To get better or sharpen their game?

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Ok, say they got recruited solely based on HS play. That's fine, but how is it possible they would be good enough play at a higher level? Isn't that really why the players play in the summer? To get better or sharpen their game?

They would have to be a special athlete and the coach would take them on Pure athleticism - Figuring they can teach them to play outfield and or pinch run.

Understand that a lot of coaches think whatever the player is doing now is wrong because its not the way they would have taught it, they are looking for basic mechanics and once they get that kid in to their system they will fix 'em

 

[absolute59]

The funny thing is I only had my daughter start to play travel when she was a 10U because I knew that if she didn't play travel (at least in our SD) she would never be able to make the HS team and I wanted her to have the opportunity if she wanted it.

Of course I am now 4 years and lots of money into it... but she really likes it, has made some really good friends on her travel team and has become a pretty good player.

 

[CARDS]

Ok, say they got recruited solely based on HS play. That's fine, but how is it possible they would be good enough play at a higher level? Isn't that really why the players play in the summer? To get better or sharpen their game?

I doubt any of the ladies were recruited just off of HS play.

The Gators pitcher was very strong and I am sure attended many college camps and combines. I would suspect she was a weekend hired gun just subbing for teams throughout the summer. We had a HS player that signed with a local D1 school that just subbed for a variety of summer teams her Soph/Jr/Sr years and attended camps and clinics at the college.

As far as higher level...A little off topic but that depends on what your definition of what higher level is...

Now we are going back several years but our travel team was fortunate enough to be one of the travel teams to play in the Fall Vernon Bibb cancer tournament at 16U/18U at Georgetown college and Lindsay Wilson College
Verses the college programs we went 3-2 and should have went 5-0.. The travel teams were defiantly stronger than the college programs a couple went undefeted.
Now these were JC, NAIA and DIII programs but I would say from 2009/2013 even the top 5 teams in the GMC/GWOC HS leagues would compete and maybe beat several of the college programs we faced.

I think a lot of people have a misconception of the talent at a lot of colleges. Yeah the top 25 programs at all divisions are good and could compete vs. other divisions of play (outside of top 25 D1) but I have seen some bad college teams (even at D1). A lot of these teams would struggle to compete vs. most of the better 16/18U travel clubs.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

THE BOTTOM LINE IS - THIS HAS TO BE FUN!!! If you are only playing to get a scholarship STOP RIGHT NOW - The money your investing has to be because your family enjoys it DO NOT consider it an investment towards college or you will be sorely disappointed