Hitting batters

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Question... At 14u, how many batters do you let your pitcher hit, before you pull her out? We played a team that hit several of our batters, and coach left her in. I saw her hit three of our girls and pitched behind another. However, I was told after the game, that I must have missed the other two batters she nailed. IMO, two hit batters and she is done for the game. What say you?
 
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By the end of the year, our pitchers could count the number of HB on 1 hand.....and we played alot of games. A breaking ball that gets away here and there is understandable but if at 14u you have major control issues where you struggle to throw a strike and you're nailing multiple batters every game, maybe you should consider a different position.
 
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Question... At 14u, how many batters do you let your pitcher hit, before you pull her out? We played a team that hit several of our batters, and coach left her in. I saw her hit three of our girls and pitched behind another. However, I was told after the game, that I must have missed the other two batters she nailed. IMO, two hit batters and she is done for the game. What say you?

IMO, two hit batters could be over reacting, especially if a game plan includes a lot of inside pitches to a team that (by coaches orders) perenially crowds the plate. Besides, you must consider the overall performance of your pitcher. Is she generally hitting the called spots? Is the pitch calling aggressively inside pitches? If so, two hit batters is not such a big deal. If she's "following the plan", maybe it's not such a big deal.

Now, throwing BEHIND batters, above the batter's head, and generally a very low percentage of hitting spots over 2 - 3 innings is probably reason for concern. But if you immediately yank your pitchers after two HBP, they won't get the message that you expect better, and the team is depending on her. A pitcher should NEVER get off that easy anyway. If she's gonna make it in a competitive environment, she must know that she's expected to make adjustments (to a point) just like anybody on the team. Everything in the game plan is interconnected - your pitcher's skill, your pitching plan for THIS game, opposing team's hitting tendencies, field conditions, weather... definitely not a black 'n white decision based on 2 HBP.

Getting upset and irritated at your pitcher during a poor performance is also non-productive (not insinuating that YOU do, by the way :)). A factual approach goes a long way toward improvement for next game. Your pitcher is probably already upset and disappointed in her performance, and someone else piling on won't help. If anything, force her into a habit of "self diagnosing" her performance, and DO NOT allow self-pity. She should be on the bench thinking about what she can do to get better, not wallowing in self pity about how bad she did last inning. Crying pitcher syndrome is a downward spiral - demand that your pitcher replaces her mindset with a "self diag" positive one, or she won't get much circle time.

I apologize for going off topic somewhat. I just wanted to expand a little on my feelings of what I view a "pitching mindset" should be.
 
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I can only assume the coach was trying to make a point. Perhaps her parents have mommy / daddy goggles and had just given him an earful about her circle time and how she should be the #1. Wasn't someone recently saying how pitchers' parents all have an axe and hockey mask in their car trunks? LOL Just speculating here but hey - free baserunners for you right? Hopefully no one got hurt too bad.
 
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A pitcher's job is to keep runners off of the bases ... hitting batters puts runners on the bases. I don't believe there should be any set rules or even any "guidelines" about when to take a pitcher out based on the number of batters she hits. As a coach, you're looking at lots of things as Sammy talks about ... where are the pitches being called, is she just missing on one of her pitches, how well is she hitting her spots overall, how many hitters are reaching base. If I have a pitcher hit 3 batters, walk one, strike out 10 and allow 2 hits, I am probably going to leave her in the game and just try to figure out what pitch or mechanical issue is occasionally breaking down, and have her work through it. If on the other hand, she is hitting or throwing behind multiple batters, allowing more than a walk per inning, and throwing less than 50% strikes, she is probably never going to make it long enough to hit a 3rd batter.

While I agree a pitcher should average hitting less than one batter per game, if you're not hitting a few over the course of the season, you're not throwing inside enough. My DD averaged about one every 20 innings in college.
 
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Not sure if the last 2 posts were just supposed to be humorous but, if not, no adult coach should be telling minors to purposely hit other minors.
 
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they were jokes I'm sure...

At 13u, I'll bet we only hit 4-6 batters all year. And that is with regular inside calls and pitchers struggling through the massive heat this past summer. To answer the question, it's all relative, that simple yet difficult. If the coach doesn't know when to pull her, is the pitcher ready to be out there at 14u? At 14u, control is a must or the game will get out of hand. No one wants to hurt someone. If I felt they did it once in a game... and never before, let her continue. Go the mound, ask her what's going on and if she needs to rest or be pulled. She will tell you if the coach has built a solid re pore with the pitcher. At 14u they should be able to let you know.
 
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It's been touched on a couple of times above, about pitch calling and knowing your pitcher. That being said, I have seen girls at 14U throwing in the high 50's to low 60's that are "effectively" wild, as the saying goes. They can throw heat but sometimes lack control. Their numbers may be 7 walks, 6 hit batters 12 k's and 1 earned run. So long as her team scores at least 2 runs wouldn't that be considered a successful outing? These pitchers often find their control and are shut down pitchers later on. I'm not saying that was, or is, often the case.
 
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Our dd doesn't want to hit anybody, but if the batter is crowding the plate, or she sees a team who clearly doesn't like pitches on the inside of the plate (which happened a couple of times last year) guess where she's going to throw it? The choice of pitches she throws are between herself, the catcher and the coach, if he or she is calling pitches. The idea, after all, is to make the batter uncomfortable to make it easier to get her out.
 
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It's been touched on a couple of times above, about pitch calling and knowing your pitcher. That being said, I have seen girls at 14U throwing in the high 50's to low 60's that are "effectively" wild, as the saying goes. They can throw heat but sometimes lack control. Their numbers may be 7 walks, 6 hit batters 12 k's and 1 earned run. So long as her team scores at least 2 runs wouldn't that be considered a successful outing? These pitchers often find their control and are shut down pitchers later on. I'm not saying that was, or is, often the case.

If one of my pitchers walks 7 batters and hits 6, they will never make it to the end of the game. That is NOT a successful outing to me, that's 13 extra runners she put on base. The pitchers that are depending on speed alone, especially without control, are usually the pitchers that get hammered as they get older....anyone can time up a fastball. The older batters rather enjoy the pitchers who have nothing but speed, it tends to build up their batting and slugging averages.
 
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Klump ... agree on both counts ... and it's not too often that 13 extra runners is only going to translate into one run per the Generals example ... I can't remember any games ever where that happened ... would be lucky to have only given up 4-5 runs at that point ...
 
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Here is some food for thought....several years ago, at 14u (mid summer) I watched a game where a pitcher threw hard but was very very wild (one pitch would be a strike, next pitch would hit the back stop, third one in the dirt etc). The pitcher was probably about 5'10 and 165 lbs- very athletic looking kid.

To start the game, she walked the first two batters with balls going everywhere. (backstop, dirt, way inside, way outside)

Then she hit the 3rd batter in the knee cap and from where i was sitting, it looked as if the pitcher hit her hip when she threw this pitch.

The 4th batter comes up (strong girl, not crowding the plate but had good poise in the batters box) and on the very first pitch, the pitcher hits this batter right in the hands and her knuckles exploded. (she was taken to the hospital).

At this point, I felt the team should have pulled this pitcher but they did not. I later learned later that the player that was injured was the the starting catcher and was out the rest of the season due to several broken bones in her hands.

The game continues and the next batter gets a walk, and the 6th batter hits a shot to the OF scoring numerous runs. At this point, the coach pulls the pitcher.

To me, watching this pitcher, she was very raw and had little control- on each pitch her "form" would change, she would hit her hip, then she would shorten her stride, then she would change her arm circle (hello elbow) but on the next pitch, she would come across her body on her release- she dipped on some of her pitches, stepped to the side on some pitches and she did not appear to locate her pitches-a total mess but she threw hard (probably mid upper 50's)

I saw this same girl pitching later that day and it was the same story, walks, a hit batter etc. except this time, her "wildness" really effected the opposing team and i could tell the batters were timid in the batters box.

I later learned, through the small softball community, that this pitcher (who had quite a reputation because of her father) quit the game mid season at 15u to play volleyball. It turns out her dad really wanted her to be a pitcher and would constantly take her to a new pitching coach to try and make her "faster" and would get annoyed at any pitching coach that told him his daughter needed to work on her "form" first.

Just figured i'd share....
 
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When my dd started pitching (u10) at she was the only girl on a local rec team that would pitch. So the poor coach had to leave her in. She once went through an entire lineup and hit every kid and was starting on them second time. The other team wasn't much better. One day she came home and was thrilled to tell me that she tossed a 3 hitter; 'I only hit 3 batters...'. She has thrown the ball over the back stop and behind the batter, on a regular basis but slowly oh so very slowly got more control. It did not come all at once, it took thousands and thousands of pitches both in games and practice but she eventually found the control and speed and the break needed to be successful.

Last season in high school, as senior, she pitched 137 innings hitting a pair of batters along with 132 k's.

Over the years, she stayed with it, received some encouragement, and worked. The coaches left her in for what ever reason. She in turn did better and better. She is currently vying for a starting spot on her college team as a freshman. She'll work a little harder, push herself to throw a better pitch, to keep improving. I get to go home tonight and catch her during her break. She'll throw a few in the floor and a few in the net; because she is still pushing herself to get a better break, throw a more effective drop. All because some poor coach left her in, didn't embarrass her and let her throw.

Thanks Coach
 
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Fairman ... your post struck a chord with me. My DD played slowpitch up through 6th grade, partially because this was the last part of the state for fastpitch to really come to. She pitched in slowpitch and that fall she told me she wanted to become a fastpitch pitcher, so she started taking lessons, and she was throwing 6 days a week. I was going to be coaching her first fastpitch team in the spring, a CYO team. Her pitching coach told us both that she was going to struggle with control, but that it was important that she worked through it ... to forget about the last bad pitch, to work on her mechanics, and not alter them in an attempt to "just throw strikes".

I will always remember that first game ... I started her at pitcher in the top of the 1st, only because I knew our other pitcher was pretty much in the same boat. She proceeded to walk or hit the first 10 batters (I think she actually only hit one of them) she faced, which means they had 7 runs in, bases loaded and no outs. Being her coach, I remember sweating it some especially when I heard one of the other parents yell to "just throw strikes" only imagining what the other parents were thinking or whispering amongst themselves, but I went out and talked to her sometime during that inning and just reminded her of what her pitching coach had told us, and that I loved her no matter what happened. All of a sudden, it started to click for her, and she struck out the side to get out of the inning and, to make a long story short, we ended up winning that first game 24-7.

As she continued through both a very successful high school and D3 college career, I have thought many times about what that pitching coach told us and how that might have been the best thing we both ever learned about pitching, and which we have passed on to other girls we have coached still learning to pitch.
 
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Lol, funny Jenna ... I see we both posted about the same time ... I'm glad I admitted up front that I was her coach!
 
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I threw a 3 hitter, only hit 3 batters... That's awesome!

Btw just because a kid is crowding the plate doesn't mean the % should go up on being hit lol. If that was the case many kids would just crowd the plate looking for a freebie. My DD was a pitcher and if a kid crowded the plate meant there was a better chance she'd hit her, we'd have a lot of work to do on the mental side.

Take it for what it's worth but local CYO rules were put in place due to a Nuke Laloosh player and complaints, the rule is if you hit 2 batters in an inning you must be replaced with another pitcher that inning, your not banned from pitching again they really don't follow re-entry rules, but depending on the age you can only pitch 3 or 4 innings a game so the max would be 6-8 lol
 
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Regarding the 13 free bases...I'm not quoting a score book here, just throwing out some generalization. A girl that struggles that much is not going to be with a top tier team, she will more than likely be playing the B circuit, where heat is usually enough to get by young 13 year olds. What I was trying to get across is that alot of us have seen girls hit one, walk one, then fan the next 2, and when these girls finally put everything together they can be fun to watch. I'm not saying this is the norm. I'm not saying this is the case in relation to the original poster. I'm just saying it can happen.
 
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"Just throw strikes" lol! If only kids had the courage to call time, walk over to the parent or coach making that request, hand them the ball and say "Here - please demonstrate".
 
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"Just throw strikes" lol! If only kids had the courage to call time, walk over to the parent or coach making that request, hand them the ball and say "Here - please demonstrate".

One of my pitcher's dad when any of my pitchers is scuffling to throw strikes he says in a confident reassuring voice "ok.....back to work" it's a different phrase, I like it and it works. Seems to be a settling down phrase, I've actually stolen it from him lol. I've personally haven't said just throw strikes since I heard a coach say that to his clearly rattled pitcher and she responded with you think it's so easy you come out and do it. So I shelved that phrase about 10 years ago lol.
 

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