Hitting batters

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"Just throw strikes" lol! If only kids had the courage to call time, walk over to the parent or coach making that request, hand them the ball and say "Here - please demonstrate".

One of our other coaches keep saying this to my DD and our other pitcher, both go to pitching coaches and his DD does nothing to make herself better, nothing makes mine more unhappy than him saying come on and throw strikes. I just laugh anymore at the look she gives me.

 

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One of DD's rec coaches from LONG ago would say that, and it used to infuriate her! She would tell me she was thinking "Wow coach! I'm really trying to throw it over the backstop, but I keep missing!" I wonder how many other kids think that? IMO, makes about as much sense as saying to batters "Just hit home runs now!" Maybe something a little more intuitive - like "Just throw pitches that LOOK like strikes, but are actually pitches that the batters cannot hit!"

We eventually turned that phrase into our little "inside joke". As she got older and having a rough outing, I would use that phrase, which always got a grin from her. We both knew what that meant, and maybe it helped her to relax and refocus. Lemons to lemonade...

 

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One of DD's rec coaches from LONG ago would say that, and it used to infuriate her! She would tell me she was thinking "Wow coach! I'm really trying to throw it over the backstop, but I keep missing!" I wonder how many other kids think that? IMO, makes about as much sense as saying to batters "Just hit home runs now!" Maybe something a little more intuitive - like "Just throw pitches that LOOK like strikes, but are actually pitches that the batters cannot hit!"

This is exactly what i was thinking

 

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Interests of full disclosure I was not my dd's coach at that time.
I had an older son playing baseball and was coaching her sister on an older team.
I don't know if I could have left her in so long but someone else did and it has made all the difference.

By the way
She is normally a sensitive, caring young woman... but put her on the mound and she thinks she has the right to plate and 6" on both sides and that a batter with a $300 weapon is not to trifled with. Don't crowd her or it's a screw ball in on the hands... She thinks one of the her greatest pitches is hitting a batter while they are attempting to bunt. Gets a strike call and a thump. She has definitely developed a nasty streak from pitching. Probably started when she was 9.

These are lessons that most guys learn without much comment but a girl..oh my!

 

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I have truly enjoyed all the posts on this topic. The many feelings on the subject have been shared and insight on the reasons for allowing what appears to be a mess to continue or to hook a girl for any reason. Of course, each individual scenario will have its own outcome and hindsight will reason whether it was a good decision or bad. I believe in giving the pitcher, especially a young one, absolutely every chance I can to work herself out of jams and possibly become a productive player in the circle. You have to let those girls have time under game situations to mature mentally after months or years of lessons.

Like many, I've got a book full of stories I can tell because I've been a pitching instructor now for many years. I can promise you my attitude on the subject changed once I got involved with the pitching aspect of the game. I can promise those concerned parents that REAL pitching instructors do not teach the kids to hit batters. We don't want the added pressure of baserunners to deal with. Those things come from coaches with limited coaching skills and normally have no insight into the pitcher's world in the circle. Girls get hit enough by accident to keep batters honest without doing it on purpose as mentioned about the crowding the plate and attempting to throw inside corner scenario points out. Pitching is the most difficult defensive position to learn/play. Just because a girl has a bad outing doesn't mean she'll never make a successful pitcher.

Making up rules to force a girl out of the circle because she hits a few batters is hogwash in my opinion and the parents of the lil princesses that demand such a rule need to take their daughter to the tennis court and work on her backhand.

The element of a batter getting hit by a pitch is a part of the game because human beings are the ones playing the game. I tell my pitchers I don't expect a perfect pitch every time. If that's what I wanted I'd set up my machine and feed it balls all day. I want the best pitch YOU can throw me. That's what makes this game fun. People playing people, not robots with a conscience. I think parents misunderstand what's going on with a pitcher that hits their lil girl. Trust me, most feel bad about it and would be visibly full of regret except for one thing; we teach the girls to remain calm and not show any weakness because of the action. That can give the other team the fuel to confidently pick her apart. My pitchers are going to take the mistake in stride and are thinking what did I do wrong there and how can I fix it. Your lil princess gets to go to 1st and possibly win a ballgame for her team while my pitcher is still in a pickle. Every pitch after becomes more important. If you really need your ego stroked we'll do it after the game.

If your going to play the game with a rule that says batters can't get hit by a pitch, then I want a rule that says hitters will be punished if they hit the ball up the middle and hit my pitcher.

 

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My 19 year old dd is working on throwing an inside curve. She can break a curve over a foot (sometimes) but is struggling to get it to break like that when thrown inside. So she is working on it. This season it will be called with two outs, no one on and a lead, until she proves she can throw it reliably. If she can move it over and still maintain her break, batters will be bailing out on called strikes much to her amusement.

My reason for telling you this is that these pitchers are NOT automatons placing every ball at the exact location and speed they intend. They do not spring fully formed and never throw another awful pitch. The better ones are trying to get better with each pitch and sometimes they toss it in the dirt and sometimes over the backstop, sometimes it will break and sometimes it won't. My dd would rather strike the batter out but recognizes that a HBP is a real possibility and not the end of her world.

 

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Getting hit as a batter and hitting batters as a pitcher is part of the game and as part of the players developmental process it is going to happen at some point.

If a hitter or pitcher is afraid of hitting or getting hit it will impact their ability to truely be successful. Now as a coach how many do you allow to be hit? I personally take in the whole game. Sometimes hitters will lean out over the plate to get hit and I have seen this a ton the past three years.
With ASA a lot of umpires will award 1st because their feet are in the box. I have had pitchers throw very good games but hit 3 or 4 because the batters pull a "Rudi Stein" and to be honest I did have a Rudy on my team and you can usually tell them because they are wearing BA.

At the younger ages a hit batter or three may not be the end of the world if the pitcher can work her way out of the jam and has been pretty consistent with not working deep counts. If they are struggling with deep counts and getting hit take them out.

As Sammy stated...anyone who shouts "just throw strikes" generally cannot do it themselves or model the instruction needed to do so....



USSSA:
RULE 7. BATTING
Sec 11. A batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him
PENALTY: The batter remains at bat (pitch is a ball or strike), unless pitch
was a third strike.

RULE 10. DEAD BALL - SUSPENSION OF PLAY
Sec 1. The batter is awarded 1st base and all base runners advance one base (if
forced), when a pitched ball, not struck at and not called a strike, touches any
part of the batter's person or clothing (if not loose garment). The ball may
strike the ground before it hits the batter.
EXCEPTION: If the batter makes no effort to avoid being hit, the hitting of
the batter is disregarded. The ball is dead immediately and is a strike or ball
depending on location of the pitch.
Note:
1. It does not matter if the ball strikes the ground before hitting the batter.
2. The batter?s hands are not considered part of the bat.
3. If a batter swings and the ball hits his hands which send it into fair or foul
territory, the ball is dead immediately; A strike is called on the batter;
and if it is the third strike, the batter is out.


ASA:
11.16 Hit Batter (by Pitch)
11.16.1 A batter is awarded first base when a pitched ball is entirely within the
batter?s box and it strikes the batter or her clothing. No attempt to avoid being
hit by the pitch is required however the batter may not obviously try to get hit
by the pitch (See Rule 11.16.3.1).
11.16.2 A batter is awarded first base when a pitched ball neither swung at nor
called a strike touches any part of the batter?s person or clothing while she is
in the batter?s box, except as noted in Rule 11.16.3 that follows.
EFFECT? (11.16.1-11.16.2)? The ball is dead. The batter is entitled to
first base without liability to be put out. Base runners may not
advance unless forced.
Notes:
1. It does not matter if the ball strikes the ground before hitting the batter.
2. The batter?s hands are not considered part of the bat.
3. If a batter swings and the ball hits her hands sending it into fair or foul
territory, the ball is dead and a strike is called on the batter. If it is strike three,
the batter is out.
11.16.3 The hit batter shall not be awarded first base under the following
circumstances:
11.16.3.1 The batter made no attempt to avoid the pitch (which is not entirely
in the batter?s box) or she obviously tried to get hit by the pitch (regardless
of its location).
EFFECT?The ball is dead. The pitch is a ball or strike (depending on
its location), and the batter remains at bat, except the batter
is declared out if the pitch was a third strike or the batter is
awarded first base if the pitch was ?Ball four.? Base runners
advance if forced.
116 RULE 11 / BATTING
Note: The benefit of any doubt must go to the batter and could include a batter
freezing and unable to move due to the unusual movement or speed of the pitch.
11.16.3.2 The batter is hit by a pitch in the strike zone.
EFFECT?The ball is dead. The pitch is a strike. The batter is declared out if
the pitch was a third strike; otherwise, she remains at bat. Each
base runner must return to the base legally occupied at the time
of the pitch.
11.16.3.3 The pitched ball touches any part of the batter?s person as she
swings and misses for a third strike.
EFFECT?The ball is dead. The batter is declared out, and each base runner
must return to the base legally occupied at the time of the pitch.
11.16.3.4 The batter is hit by a pitch out of the front of the batter?s box,
assuming she did not swing or attempt to bunt.
EFFECT??No Pitch.?

 

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i didn't say anything about making rules limiting batters hit. I asked how many, as a coach, do you allow? If said pitcher has had major mechanics issues since 10u, how long do you let them "work it out"?

 

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There is a huge difference between a fairly new 10u pitcher hitting 6 batters in a game and a 14u pitcher hitting 6 batters in a game. A 10u pitcher is most likely still working on control and hit batters are expected. If you are a 14u pitcher at the travel level, then the control should be there and hit batters should be limited to breaking pitches that get away from them.
My dd is a pitcher and when she was 10 she hit alot of batters but now that she's 14, HB are few and far between. If any of my pitchers hit more than 1 batter a game, they are coming out. As a coach I cannot allow too many free bases, let alone injure the entire opposing team.

 

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Klump ... agree that there's a difference between 10-U and 14-U and that you don't want to give up free bases, but disagree that the only time a pitcher should ever hit a batter is if a breaking ball gets away. I have yet to meet a pitcher at any age level who can put every pitch exactly where she wants. An inside fastball can occasionally be off target just a shade and hit a batter every so often. It happens sometimes.

 

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I wouldn't pull a pitcher just because she hit a batter or a dozen. A hit batter is no worse than a walk. How many walks would you allow before you pull her?

Are the batters getting hit on near-strikes or has the pitcher completely lost the zone? Is she hitting batters with a screw but not a drop. How is her inside rise working? Are the batters so nervous that we can work on the outside of the plate for a few innings? Must you win this game or can you use it to allow the pitcher to grow up? There is a lot ot consider before you pull her......

 

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good thing the 3 in an inning or 6 in a game is on the books for the last comment. Too funny! You may get some feathers turned on that one.

 

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I think you are taking what I wrote way too literally. I didn't mean that the ONLY time a batter should ever be hit at 14u is on errant breaking balls with no exception....that's just crazy. All pitchers have bad days but control is essential to success at the upper age groups.

Our team only allows 2 walks/HB per inning or 4 for the game. In scrimmages or league play we are a little lienent but not in tournaments.

 

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It's different for each age group and game situation, but my husband always told our dd "if you're gonna hit the batter, don't do it with a change up." Yes, it was a joke.

 

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I wouldn't pull a pitcher just because she hit a batter or a dozen. A hit batter is no worse than a walk. How many walks would you allow before you pull her?

Are the batters getting hit on near-strikes or has the pitcher completely lost the zone? Is she hitting batters with a screw but not a drop. How is her inside rise working? Are the batters so nervous that we can work on the outside of the plate for a few innings? Must you win this game or can you use it to allow the pitcher to grow up? There is a lot ot consider before you pull her......

You bring up a lot of good points for why simplistic limits/policies aren't a good idea. Coaches have to consider the whole context of the pitcher's performance before making a rational decision to change pitchers:

- Overall performance: It doesn't make sense to pull a pitcher in the 5th inning for reaching an arbitrary limit if they've scattered them without really getting into any jams. OTOH, it may be too late if they're also wild 'in the zone' and giving up quite a few basehits.

- Usual vs. unusual performance: Is this unusual for this pitcher or, as some have posted, do they usually work around a bunch of free passes? Is it fatigue?

- Pitch calling: As you mentioned, it's not unusual for a pitcher to struggle with 1 of their pitches from time to time and coaches need to determine whether they can get by without calling it. Pitchers, catchers and coaches need to discuss it. A pitcher can fix it sometimes between innings while their team is batting.

- Importance of game and strength of opponent: Do you need the pitcher's 'A' game or not? There may not be any room for error in a critical game against a strong opponent. Coaches should have a 2nd pitcher warmed up and ready to go throughout these games instead of waiting for the current pitcher to get into trouble.

BTW, backdoor pitches are awesome! Good luck on your DD's backdoor curve.

 

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There is a difference between control issues and confident pitching. As a kid is maturing as a pitcher, they should be taught (encouraged) to be aggressive. I know of pitchers (DD's team mates) at 14u who were afraid to throw an aggressive inside pitch. Their timidness developed over time out of fear that their coach would get upset and yank them if they hit the batter. What happened was that over time these pitchers developed a timid attitude towards "taking chances", which gradually eats away at self confidence. The subconscious is a powerful thing, and these pitchers got to a point where they couldn't throw inside "risky" pitches to save their life. They start throwing "safe" pitches which wind up in an outfield gap - or over the fence. "Safe" pitchers are also more apt to be injured by back-at-you hits that were not inside far enough - another reason to ignore the "just throw strikes" method.

Now, from a TEAM perspective, base runners are a punch in the gut, just like walks. Somehow, especially at the higher levels of the game, they nearly always come back and bite a team in the a**. So I can understand a coach wanting to limit free bases. So a coach must make a tough decision, and no two situations or teams are exactly alike. IMO, 14u is still a young pitcher, and development is paramount. You have to walk a fine line between not stifling development of a confident, fearless pitching style, and keeping a game under control - wins and losses. Again, no two teams are alike. I prefer to err on the side of letting the pitcher take some chances, and letting them know the "why and how" of those chances. If anything, they learn how important it is to practice things that help them with control issues. Then they won't be afraid to throw an inside chin-high rise ball in college. Pitchers MUST learn to be gutsy, and that comes from having the liberty (within limits) to take chances during their developmental years.

Another analogy - fouls in basketball. A high school player is allowed 5 fouls in a game. Those fouls have the potential to hurt the team if they are shooting fouls. BUT - there are MANY situations where a foul is a GOOD thing. Fouling a poor free throw shooter, stopping a fast break, etc. My point is that the word "FOUL" should not be taught as a negative to players, but rather as just a part of the game. The time and place determines if it's good or bad. IMO, a winning team with four fouls on every player is nearly a perfect game.

In the end, it's all about knowing your pitchers. WHY are they hitting multiple batters? Are they fearful of being aggressive, or do they simply have poor mechanics. An astute coach should always have a bench conversation after the fact so that the pitcher understand your reasoning. Remember - young kids are "trying to please" the adults, and getting yanked for violating a HBP rule smells of failure to a kid. Be sure to explain that HBP is part of the game, but it must be kept in perspective. A conversation about all the details will go a long way toward squelching fears of failure, and letting them know you expect them to work hard on control, mechanics - and inside pitches. Don't sugar coat a bad performance, but give them exact details about what they need to do to improve.