Hitting and Hitters Discussion Hitting - connection

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ6T5RRG6cg

Twinsdad posted this above.

Biggest problem I see with hitters is swinging before the front heel plants.
More of a upper body swing - not fully using the lower body.

Both of these hitters plant there front foot, hips move linear and then they swing is what I see.

I say it is connection verses swinging before the heel plants being not connecting the lower and upper body together at the right time.

Any thoughts on this.



Straightleg

 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ6T5RRG6cg

Twinsdad posted this above.

Biggest problem I see with hitters is swinging before the front heal plants.
More of a upper body swing - not fully using the lower body.

Both of these hitters plant there front foot, hips move linear and then they swing is what I see.

I say it is connection verses swinging before the heal plants being not connected.

Any thoughts on this.



Straightleg

Gerry this is the whole point of linear verses rotational junk....where is it linear and where is it semi circular or elliptical and where is it rotational and the junk continues...Bustos was 10 years plus with a .400 plus batting average and she nor I see it as completely rotational. Watch her 308.5 foot shot on a pitch that was 8 inches inside from 2004 Gold Medal game and IF you watch it closely you will see her hips. shoulders, elbows moving linear and the knob of the bat leading the elbows and the belly button rotating as needed and releasing the wrist to the ball with the knob leading the barrel head to the ball....the pivotal point came as she released the barrel to the ball and if you look real close it is ( pivot point) is below the knob of the bat about 4 to 6 inches (go to Dr. Russell's site at Kettering U.)....there was more linear movement than there was rotational movement in her swing however it was tagged rotational. Look at the girl in you tube and observe her back leg and it looks like Busto's verses AP being bent and it is exactly what she teaches and describes as to the calf muscle, hamstring and what you should feel in the glutes.

She says it well at the clinics...knob of the bat leads the elbows and release the barrel to the ball head to the ball and rotate as needed dependent on the location of the ball....she describes it as linking the lower half to the upper half and not connection also.

When you look at a swing observe what is in the back ground so you can see the movement of the hips, shoulders, head, elbows and knob of the bat and the flex of the front knee allowing this to happen....especially landing on the inside edge of the lead foot and she moves linear way before she ever becomes semi circular or elliptical and rotational is questionable at best

Come and ask her yourself at the clinic Oct. 23 and 24 your self. Many of you coaches want to know what is taught and why, so come ask her yourself and debate it with her as she is not shy about showing you and then ask yourself if your college coach, high school coach or travel coach has a grasp of what she does and defend your ideas or concepts....I have been working with her 7 plus years and I am still learning myself.

Les, Tom, SBFamily, Bouldersdad, Hitter23, Crush1, Tom Lee, Gary Davis, Tom Wiseman, MeBonner, Chris Shilt, Coach Larabee, Coach Jerry Breaux, Coach Sue Bowman, Lance Dillow, Kurt Lowery, Karen Wiseman, Kavin, Buster Combs, Heather Cottiner, Pete Sporel, Bob Burlew, Shayne Yeater, Kurt Bonner, Sue Dayton, Dave Brittengiham have and most likely are better coaches because of it...she teaches what and how she does it and you can ask her your questions yourself! (If I left anyone out I am sorry)

You guys would jump at the chance of talking to Barry Bonds....talk to the Bustos of women hitters and ask her your self how she does it!

 

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Quote:
Watch her 308.5 foot shot on a pitch that was 8 inches inside from 2004 Gold Medal game and IF you watch it closely you will see her hips. shoulders, elbows moving linear


I agree Howard.
Both hitters in the above link move the hips forward linear from a flexed knee before they rotate on a fully planted front foot.

But my point is the hands are back.


What if the hands start to early in the swing?
How do you stop that



Straightleg

 

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Quote:
Watch her 308.5 foot shot on a pitch that was 8 inches inside from 2004 Gold Medal game and IF you watch it closely you will see her hips. shoulders, elbows moving linear


I agree Howard.
Both hitters in the above link move the hips forward linear from a flexed knee before they rotate on a fully planted front foot.

But my point is the hands are back.


What if the hands start to early in the swing?
How do you stop that



Straightleg

The one knee drill isolates the legs out of the swing and allows the hitter to feel what it is the hands should be doing and when.....thinking more like the water is flowing verses a herky, jerky movement. We use the Tai Chi move of flowing and try to get the hitter to simply reverse direction and not stop so they keep their momentum. If we are attempting to hit the ball up the middle and we can not then it might be our hand path or wrist release....some times it is as simple as saying lead with the knob of the bat inside the path of the ball further then release the head of the bat to the ball.

Mixing in the timing drop drill at various heights also gets them to make adjustments and as you pointed out landing on a flexed knee allows the hitter to recognize speed of the ball and when the back elbow starts to lower, the linking process begins and the heel plants based on if it is a faster pitch or slower pitch and this comes with experience while building your data base or swing DNA. Landing on a stiff front leg will allow something to start opening as to hips, shoulder or leg. The Bonds drill forces you to make this happen on every pitch which is why you see hitters start to have problems within 5 to 7 feet of forward movement while doing the drill. Timing is difficult but not impossible to teach once the mechanics of the swing is understood and using 45, 55 and 65 MPH cages helps them adjust as they are learning. Sue Enquist does a great job of explaing this on RVP under the section adjusting. We never use a pitching machine for batting practice...we use it for timing and rhythm and speed recognition to build our data base.

 

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I love the argument of linear vs. rotational, but the statement regarding the front heel is key not the rotation itself. The heel must drop to trigger the start of the swing. If it does not or the hitter has been taugh to drive the back hip forward (squish the bug), the hitter will not be able to stay behind the newly established balance point and they will push their weigh to the front side. It is true that the amount of rotation may vary slightly based on the location of the ball, but the front leg must be straight to stop the forward linear movement and start the process of driving the front hip in a backward direction while maintaing the upper body and hands in a launch position. This counter rotation is what creates torque (same as golf). The hands should maintain at a stable launch position and allow the hips to start. Keeping the hands from moving too early is the process of allowing the back elbow to slot against the side and the front elbow to work up as you bring the knob of the bat to a position the it pointing to the pitcher. This action will allow the hitter to arrive at the correct position to allow the upper body to uncoil around the lower body (regardless of how far the uncoiling process takes them) and square up the head of the bat with the proper release of the hands when it is appropriate (earlier for an inside pitch and slightly later for the outside pitch). The key is the rotation that occurs fully is the lower body the upper body simply uncoils around the lower body naturally and the striking of the ball is an action of allowing the ball to reach the proper depth in the strike zone. If you allow your hands to disconnect from the body you will either jam yourself (note: pitchers do not jam hitters...hitters jam hitters) or you will loose the ability and power to drive the outside pitch the other way and you will be a weak groundball or pop out to the right side.

We have done amazing work with fast pitch softball hitters here in MA. Most who visit us want to become line drive or power hittters instead of slappers.

The Hitting Connection
West Boylston, MA
www.thehittingconnection.com

 

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I love the argument of linear vs. rotational, but the statement regarding the front heel is key not the rotation itself. The heel must drop to trigger the start of the swing. If it does not or the hitter has been taugh to drive the back hip forward (squish the bug), the hitter will not be able to stay behind the newly established balance point and they will push their weigh to the front side. It is true that the amount of rotation may vary slightly based on the location of the ball, but the front leg must be straight to stop the forward linear movement and start the process of driving the front hip in a backward direction while maintaing the upper body and hands in a launch position. This counter rotation is what creates torque (same as golf). The hands should maintain at a stable launch position and allow the hips to start. Keeping the hands from moving too early is the process of allowing the back elbow to slot against the side and the front elbow to work up as you bring the knob of the bat to a position the it pointing to the pitcher. This action will allow the hitter to arrive at the correct position to allow the upper body to uncoil around the lower body (regardless of how far the uncoiling process takes them) and square up the head of the bat with the proper release of the hands when it is appropriate (earlier for an inside pitch and slightly later for the outside pitch). The key is the rotation that occurs fully is the lower body the upper body simply uncoils around the lower body naturally and the striking of the ball is an action of allowing the ball to reach the proper depth in the strike zone. If you allow your hands to disconnect from the body you will either jam yourself (note: pitchers do not jam hitters...hitters jam hitters) or you will loose the ability and power to drive the outside pitch the other way and you will be a weak groundball or pop out to the right side.

We have done amazing work with fast pitch softball hitters here in MA. Most who visit us want to become line drive or power hittters instead of slappers.

The Hitting Connection
West Boylston, MA
www.thehittingconnection.com

(note: pitchers do not jam hitters...hitters jam hitters) I love that and so true!

 

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Here's my observations of both swings.

The first thing I noticed was that Albert's head had a much cleaner movement throughout the entire swing. Cat's head seemed to "chili-dip" a bit. There had to be a reason so I studied further.

The first thing I noticed was Cat's front hip drives downward during her linear movement where Albert's stays on the same plane. I also noticed that Cat's front foot is completely planted before hip rotation where Albert's heel plants due to the start of his hip rotation.

Because of the front foot being totally planted with a flexed knee before hip rotation, Cat actually straightens her front leg using a combination of hip rotation and a slight negative movement towards her rear rear leg, causing her to "squish the bug" before, during, and after impact. Albert is literally off his rear foot at impact, making sure no force is left behind in his swing.

Albert bends his front leg at the end of his swing thanks to his forward momentum and is ready to run to first base. Cat's front leg is still totally straight and is not ready to run because much of her weight is being supported by her rear leg.

Both Cat and Albert seem to have a great hand path to the ball.

Len

 

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Here's my observations of both swings.

The first thing I noticed was that Albert's head had a much cleaner movement throughout the entire swing. Cat's head seemed to "chili-dip" a bit. There had to be a reason so I studied further.

The first thing I noticed was Cat's front hip drives downward during her linear movement where Albert's stays on the same plane. I also noticed that Cat's front foot is completely planted before hip rotation where Albert's heel plants due to the start of his hip rotation.

Because of the front foot being totally planted with a flexed knee before hip rotation, Cat actually straightens her front leg using a combination of hip rotation and a slight negative movement towards her rear rear leg, causing her to "squish the bug" before, during, and after impact. Albert is literally off his rear foot at impact, making sure no force is left behind in his swing.

Albert bends his front leg at the end of his swing thanks to his forward momentum and is ready to run to first base. Cat's front leg is still totally straight and is not ready to run because much of her weight is being supported by her rear leg.

Both Cat and Albert seem to have a great hand path to the ball.

Len

Len I think what you see in her hips going downward is a result of her long stride
I would never try to say I know more than an olympic athlete, but if you get into a stance and take A big stride eerything sinks and you are unable to get your back knee up under your shouler and ear as Albert does at finish.

I see normal kids all the time take a big stride and become arm swingers

 

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Len I think what you see in her hips going downward is a result of her long stride
I would never try to say I know more than an olympic athlete, but if you get into a stance and take A big stride eerything sinks and you are unable to get your back knee up under your shouler and ear as Albert does at finish.

I see normal kids all the time take a big stride and become ar swingers

I think it's a combination of a long stride plus the deep bend in the front knee all the way to heel plant. If you put your mouse cursor tip where Cat's front leg is bent at the hip, you will see that by the time she finishes her linear move, the mouse cursor tip is in the area of her mid stomach. Now, do the same thing with Albert and the hip region stays along the cursor tip.

Len

 

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Len and Mcqueen both good points.

The front foot rolling over is a good indicator that Albert got his weight fully shifted.
Cat did not.

Both good looking swings.


Straightleg

 

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Straightleg

Out of curiosity, is Cat taught a form of resistance hitting?

I like how Cat keeps her hands above the strikezone in her load and forward linear move. Many hitters like to drop their hands during their negative move.

Len

 

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Straightleg

Out of curiosity, is Cat taught a form of resistance hitting?

I like how Cat keeps her hands above the strikezone in her load and forward linear move. Many hitters like to drop their hands during their negative move.

Len

I deal with that every day at our HS practice.
What I try to get the kids to do is slide their hands front to back on the load making sure the trigger going back is not a dropping of the hands.
It also helps keep them from wrapping around their head.
This is nothing new to anyone, except the kids

 

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Hitter has a tool that I have made that helps kids understand where the elbow and hands go during the load. We have found like coach McQueen stated they tend to wrap. It is very easy to make and lets them know where the elbow ends up during the load. I will let hitter explain how it works, since it was his invention. I just used it this weekend..

 

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Hitter has a tool that I have made that helps kids understand where the elbow and hands go during the load. We have found like coach McQueen stated they tend to wrap. It is very easy to make and lets them know where the elbow ends up during the load. I will let hitter explain how it works, since it was his invention. I just used it this weekend..

There are two versions of this....One uses a regular tee and we put a inside gray piece of PVC inside the tee so it can be adjusted to any height. There is a 90 degree piece of Plexiglas bolted to the PVC with a Gatorade bottle on it. We slot the cap so the Plexiglas will fit into the bottle and then slot the bottom and hold it in place with a two part epoxy. This sets up behind the hitter with the bottom of the bottle serving as a target for the elbow to touch and after toe touch as they separate their elbow should bump the end of the bottle and they either touch it with their elbow or they roll in too far or raise or drop their hands and they will not touch the bottom of the bottle so you know it is incorrect. I designed this one so the hitter can work on their own with out anyone.

The cheap version is a swimming pool noodle or a piece of foam pipe insulation that is about 30 to 34 inches long. I stand behind them and hold it near their elbow so they can bump it with their elbow at toe touch. If they finish low or flat they will sometimes hit the noodle/ foam which is more feed back as they are probably rolling the wrist and not getting to extension.

We can also do this on one knee and take the legs out of it so we focus on just the elbows and finish over the shoulder....I sit behind them and hold the noodle/ foam and they hit off a tee.

Another way to get the kids to work on their own to stop the rolling in is to take a pair of socks and stand in front of a mirror like the pitcher is in the mirror facing you the hitter. The socks are held with the interlocking of the bottom hand index finger and the baby finger of the top hand and the socks are held in the top hand. The hitter loads and steps and separates and if the hitter can not see the socks it is evidence the shoulder is rolling in. We usually start with the hands about a hand width away from the shoulder or a width of a hand plus the thumb extended away from the shoulder. The hitter throws the socks into the mirror thinking elbows are working as a unit (staying connected) and the knob leading the elbows and throws the socks into the mirror.

 

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Straightleg

Out of curiosity, is Cat taught a form of resistance hitting?

I like how Cat keeps her hands above the strikezone in her load and forward linear move. Many hitters like to drop their hands during their negative move.

Len

Len.

Maybe Hitter could ask crystal that question. I think I did hear of some resistance training team USA do.

What do you see in the swing that would make you think that.

Interesting point.


Gerry

 

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Len.

Maybe Hitter could ask crystal that question. I think I did hear of some resistance training team USA do.

What do you see in the swing that would make you think that.

Interesting point.


Gerry

Gerry I may be incorrect on Lens question however it appears Len is looking at her form and the way she separates smoothly at toe touch...remember when we take a finger and push into the pectorals area of the arm where the arm joins to the front of the shoulder and the hitter moves their arm rearward slightly so they feel a little tension in that muscle group? If they move beyond that area they are usually rolling too far inward and they loose that tension feeling. That tension can be created within an area about 2 inches beyond the back shoulder.

Another point is we start the hands at the minimum of the top of the hands to the top of the shoulders and no higher than the ear hole on the helmet to avoid the extremes of high elbows or hands. Can it be done with elbows above the shoulder or hands held higher or lower, sure however we do not teach style verses mechanics and they learn the mechanics and create their style from there.

When doing the one knee drill this is why we put so much emphasis on the hands flowing back and then forward like the water in the bottle example we use and the flowing move in Ta Chi...pointing out we do not want to stop and only change direction when we decide to swing.

Hope I helped answer the question....

 

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I am in no way criticizing this female player, just my observation


What I see the young lady’s front shoulder flying open; I did not dissect the swing and do frame by frame analysis. She also squishes the bug; Pujos drives his hips through the swing, for the most part as is evident when his back foot comes off the ground. The correct throwing motion mirrors the correct hitting motion. I have not seen players squish the bug while throwing. You can debate when to plant the heel at nauseam, every player is different and I will avoid the debate. I know toe touch, heel plant and many other absolutes and irrelevant if your front side flies open. I will close with this, she is squishing the bug and she never drives her hips through, her feet are too far apart.

 

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This does not appear to be Cat Osterman, besides the fact that this person is batting right handed, there appears to be a height discrepancy. I don't think it is a bad swing, btw, just not Osterman.

 

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Good catch Chip!

At 28 seconds they are both at toe touch. At 29 seconds, they are both at heel plant. Albert's rotation has started, Cat's has not. Albert is attacking with his shoulder more than Cat. At 30 seconds we lose Cat's left shoulder because it's behind her chin. Albert's left shoulder can still be seen. At 32 seconds, Cat's core is starting to lean back towards her rear foot. This is compounding the shoulder flying open plus it is reducing the mass (her core) towards the ball and causing her to "squish the bug". Albert's core is in attack mode and rear foot is perpendicular to the ground. At 37 seconds both Albert and Cat are at extension. Albert's head to rear knee is perfectly perpendicular to the ground. Cat is leaning back, being supported by her rear leg. Her rear knee is behind her back, indicating her hips did not finish rotation.

One thing's for sure, Cat is one powerful, athletic young lady. I don't know who her instructor is, but I would suggest shortening her stride by half and attack more aggresively with her front shoulder.

Len

 

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This does not appear to be Cat Osterman, besides the fact that this person is batting right handed, there appears to be a height discrepancy. I don't think it is a bad swing, btw, just not Osterman.

My dd throws left and bats right She's a mess :lmao:

Len