Hitting and Hitters Discussion Hitting discussion

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I've been messing with RVP on iPad and wanted to toss out some thoughts for discussion about swing video. There is an obvious importance in improving bat speed. Historically, I believe bat speed is measured by radar at contact. But with the ease and convenience of RVP on iPad and smartphones (I have it on Android too), what about using a timing method - like from the ready position (loaded, hands back just before launch) and timing from here to when the bat just reaches the assumed contact point? Since it's about quickness to contact, wouldn't using a "frames to contact" be an extremely accurate determination of bat speed? After all, it is about how fast, efficient and accurate you can get the barrel to the ball. Since the time is displayed in the frame, you get an extremely accurate calculation of speed of the swing. I would think this would eventually make using a radar device obsolete. The same method can be applied to pitchers in timing segments of their mechanics. Pitcher side video could easily be shot at games and the frames counted for ball flight to give a MPH conversion. Just think - debunking all those 60+ 10u pitchers! lol! Thoughts?

 

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60mph 10u?...have only seen 55mph ...great idea tho!

 

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Sammy

It would be fairly accurate, but I don't know about extremely accurate. Time is linear but the swing accelerates and the pitch decelerates. I guess you could say that you could calculate an average speed as opposed to a speed at a certain point.

Len

 

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Sounds silly. Using video to check mechanics maybe, but to calculate swing speed? I enjoy just watching my DD stand in there and get some cuts in. It would feel like a terrible waste of my time to try and see how many miliseconds she's improved. Slow down and enjoy the ride dude.

 

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Sounds silly. Using video to check mechanics maybe, but to calculate swing speed? I enjoy just watching my DD stand in there and get some cuts in. It would feel like a terrible waste of my time to try and see how many miliseconds she's improved. Slow down and enjoy the ride dude.

Swing speed is an extremely important aspect of an effective hitter. I would use it to help me determine if the player is swinging a heavy enough bat, not to see if she improved by miliseconds. Not to hi-jack this thread, here is more on that. http://www.TheSoftballZone.com/vb3/general-softball/48643-bat-sizing-how-do-you-determine.html

 

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The best way to judge swing speed is with this. Swing Speed Radar I have been using with hitting students for years.

 

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Wow, no kidding, swing speed is an important aspect of an effectice hitter. I'm not sure I was debating that. At the next game you whip out your ipod and calculator ...I'll be the one laughing.

 

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Wow, no kidding, swing speed is an important aspect of an effectice hitter. I'm not sure I was debating that. At the next game you whip out your ipod and calculator ...I'll be the one laughing.

No offense intended, TwoEagles. I was just saying that the calculation of swing speed is important to me for bat sizing, not for seeing miliseconds of improvement. I didn't think you were debating the importance of swing speed. Sorry for the confusion. You won't see me with a calculator.

 

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You could make a killing Sammy, softball reminds me of golf with all the gadgets out there. You should make that app as a RVP add on!

 

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Hey Tim -- who are some of the girls with the fastest bat speeds you have worked with ?

 

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I've been messing with RVP on iPad and wanted to toss out some thoughts for discussion about swing video. There is an obvious importance in improving bat speed. Historically, I believe bat speed is measured by radar at contact. But with the ease and convenience of RVP on iPad and smartphones (I have it on Android too), what about using a timing method - like from the ready position (loaded, hands back just before launch) and timing from here to when the bat just reaches the assumed contact point? Since it's about quickness to contact, wouldn't using a "frames to contact" be an extremely accurate determination of bat speed? After all, it is about how fast, efficient and accurate you can get the barrel to the ball. Since the time is displayed in the frame, you get an extremely accurate calculation of speed of the swing. I would think this would eventually make using a radar device obsolete. The same method can be applied to pitchers in timing segments of their mechanics. Pitcher side video could easily be shot at games and the frames counted for ball flight to give a MPH conversion. Just think - debunking all those 60+ 10u pitchers! lol! Thoughts?

The first problem I see would be the very short distance to calculate the swing from a video next would be frame rate from the camera. The short distance would make it almost impossible to even get close to the correct speed because 1to2miliseconds could be up to 8 mph different. Also some cameras change frame rates for different lighting conditions, so you would have to know distance/time/frame rate. That's a lot of calculations when you can buy a radar devise to do the same and be way more accurate.
I do believe swing speed is a very important aspect of hitting and would be a good training tool.

 

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Hey Tim -- who are some of the girls with the fastest bat speeds you have worked with ?

MD - I'm betting that's proprietary info, kinda like a trade secret...

Len - Yep, I see your point. It would only be average speed, and actually of no value for true bat speed. However, maybe as a tool to measure total time from launch to contact. So while not measuring bat speed, you're instead measuring quickness of the swing - getting from point A to point B in the shortest time possible. A quicker swing allowing a batter to wait as long as possible to judge the pitch... make sense?

TwoEagles - Dude, I already "finished the trip" and am now coasting way past the finish line... and if I moved any slower, I'd have to speed up to stop.

But anyway, maybe this is a case of using the proper tool for the task, and a swing speed radar sounds like the best tool.

 

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Hey Tim -- who are some of the girls with the fastest bat speeds you have worked with ?

Sorry Dan. I wont give names. The fastest 18u Ive seen topped out at 87, that fastest 12 u topped at 74. Most everyone else depending on age ranges from mid 50,s to mid 60,s

 

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That's a good idea, Sammy. In fact, it's so good that somebody already thought of it!

Back when RVP first came out (almost a decade ago now), there were hitting instructors touting it's uses a "time tool" to measure the amount of time from swing initiation to bat contact with the ball. I can remember reading pages and pages of discussions about this on various Internet forums.

Out of this discussion came the phrase "five frame swing". A five frame swing would be a good thing and an indication that the batter was using good mechanics to get to the ball in the quickest possible manner. This allows a hitter to wait until the ball is as close to the plate as she can, so not to be fooled by late pitch movement, while at the same time generating good bat speed.

RVP video runs at 30 frames per second. That means that each frame encompasses about .033 seconds. If a batter can go from swing initiation to contact in five frames, that means that she is getting to the ball in under .16 seconds. In other words, she is committing as late as possible (less chance of getting fooled, greater chance of being right on the ball) and getting there as quickly as possible (generating the best bat speed).

I'm sure that if you Google "five frame swing" you'll find plenty of info that better explains this.

 

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MD - I'm betting that's proprietary info, kinda like a trade secret...

Len - Yep, I see your point. It would only be average speed, and actually of no value for true bat speed. However, maybe as a tool to measure total time from launch to contact. So while not measuring bat speed, you're instead measuring quickness of the swing - getting from point A to point B in the shortest time possible. A quicker swing allowing a batter to wait as long as possible to judge the pitch... make sense? - Absolutely, yes!

TwoEagles - Dude, I already "finished the trip" and am now coasting way past the finish line... and if I moved any slower, I'd have to speed up to stop. - lol...that's funny!

See bold
Len

 

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Sounds silly. Using video to check mechanics maybe, but to calculate swing speed? I enjoy just watching my DD stand in there and get some cuts in. It would feel like a terrible waste of my time to try and see how many miliseconds she's improved. Slow down and enjoy the ride dude.

Every millisecond counts. It's the difference between contact and a miss....providing you're on the ball. If you disagree, you're personal enjoyable ride might not last very long.

Len

 

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They say a 4 frame swing is world class, so 33 milliseconds takes you from good to world class.

Len

 

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Sorry Dan. I wont give names. The fastest 18u Ive seen topped out at 87, that fastest 12 u topped at 74. Most everyone else depending on age ranges from mid 50,s to mid 60,s

I think I know that 11 year old @ 74, Tim. Lol.

 

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Theres an old argument, stating from some five frame swing endorsers that true bat speed is irreverent. What matters is quickness from lag to contact. They kind of chase their tales using the FFS argument and circling back to total bat speed. It is in my opinion an argument of academic value only. Much like other arguments in hitting. Although it does make for good conversation.


Tim

 

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Theres an old argument, stating from some five frame swing endorsers that true bat speed is irreverent. What matters is quickness from lag to contact. They kind of chase their tales using the FFS argument and circling back to total bat speed. It is in my opinion an argument of academic value only. Much like other arguments in hitting. Although it does make for good conversation.


Tim

In other words.....SEE BALL.....HIT BALL....how hard can it be......