hitting

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Thanks. Not sure how it only registers bat speed at contact when hitting a ball off tee.

Seems like you could do a lot of experimental comparisons:
- Hitting ball off tee vs. only swinging bat
- Hitting ball in different locations - inside/outside, high/low
- Swinging different length and/or weight bats

You can do different tests, some are pretty interesting. The difference between down the middle vs out side swing speed was an eye opener for me.

Ball at contact vs swing with no tee the difference was pretty close, as it measures the speed of the swing its self and no inherent on contact.

Swing with a whip hit vs a bat at contact.......... The whip hit by its self added 7 to 10 mph on the swing. Another eye opener. Which also plays in your question about bat sizes which can be used to find the appropriate max weight someone should swing. That dosent de crease bat speed.

The difference beteen and end loaded bat and a balanced version. Normally balanced wins on the speed but the end load has a ton higher BEV.

You can use a radar gun and the SPR at the same time to come up with some pretty cool numbers on swing speed and bev and how they relate

 

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SPR is set up behind the plate in a stationary from Directly behind the tee. During your swing the only way the very end of the bat could enter the zone is if the shoulder is pulled out and the bat shortened. For the many times I have used one of these, When mechanics break down the swing speed suffers. The cone is set up to read the sweet spot of the bat coming thru. You have to try to get just the tip of the bat to make it thru the zone And in my opinion the swing speeds difference is negligible.

I shouldn't be surprised they've improved if the cone/beam stays focused enough to only read directly where it is aimed (e.g. sweet spot). A hitting guru from NorCal posted he had to use another type of device that worked with a reflective strip in order to get an accurate reading. That was some time ago and he later moved away from bat speed in favor of quickness. Here is a small excerpt from a recent post:

Bat speed and quickness are sometimes confused. Quickness has little to do with bat speed. It is a measure of elapsed time. Swing launch to contact. THIS is the area to concentrate on, because it will have a far greater effect on results than bat speed. A quick swing allows a hitter to wait longer to launch, put simply. Longer = better pitch telemetry, which means more consistent sweet spot contact. Since hitting the ball 200' is really not much of a challenge - 100lb girls can and do accomplish it with efficient mechanics - doing it more OFTEN is the challenge. Got to get efficient, and that means waiting longer and seeing the pitch better.

Having worked with literally hundreds of female hitters as an instructor, I can tell you for a certainty that it is rare than an adult female can't learn mechanics that will result in 200' of carry. How often she can do it is the separator. Obviously, size and strength help, and allow for a bigger margin of error. But the ultimate incremental gain in margin of error is derived from quickness. It is probably intuitively obvious - and correct - that seeing the pitch better / longer allows for a much better probability of efficient contact. And "perfect" contact more often, too.

 

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Thanks. Not sure how it only registers bat speed at contact when hitting a ball off tee.

Seems like you could do a lot of experimental comparisons:
- Hitting ball off tee vs. only swinging bat
- Hitting ball in different locations - inside/outside, high/low
- Swinging different length and/or weight bats

You can do different tests, some are pretty interesting. The difference between down the middle vs out side swing speed was an eye opener for me.
I expect the outside swing speed was faster due to the longer swing radius - if you have the same rotational velocity (RPMs). Did you happen to compare BEV too?
I expect you'd find bat speed is slower for pitches up in the zone because the hitter isn't assisted by gravity. It's the reason MLB hitters have trouble catching up with "high cheese" like they can if it's lower in the zone.

Ball at contact vs swing with no tee the difference was pretty close, as it measures the speed of the swing its self and no inherent on contact.
Sounds like you confirmed my suspicion about their claim. The ball on tee might yield more accurate/consistent readings by providing a target for the hitter to get the bat in the cone/beam.

Swing with a whip hit vs a bat at contact.......... The whip hit by its self added 7 to 10 mph on the swing. Another eye opener. Which also plays in your question about bat sizes which can be used to find the appropriate max weight someone should swing. That dosent decrease bat speed.
Exactly - the device could help select the correct bat size - weight and length.

The difference beteen and end loaded bat and a balanced version. Normally balanced wins on the speed but the end load has a ton higher BEV.
As you probably know, that's because the end-loaded bat has a higher Moment of Inertia (MOI) that makes it swing like a heavier bat and results in a higher BEV.

You can use a radar gun and the SPR at the same time to come up with some pretty cool numbers on swing speed and bev and how they relate

Which do you think is more important - bat speed or BEV?

 

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I think they are intertwined. To me one without the other probably dosent happen. Just an example, I have yet to see a girl with a low swing speed have a high bev. The swing speed defines the mechanics. The bev defines the ability to drive at contact. Are there girls with higher BS and somewhat lower BEV yes there are. And the testing together is a tale tell sign on what to correct.

The most interesting thing about that test is when 3 things are used at the same time, The radar in the rear, the gun to measure bev and right view pro to look at the mechanics of that swing. The kids then understand a little better about what needs to happen to raise the bev at contact. What normally happens is I see a slight increase in BS and BEV when they try to drive thru harder at contact

Most bev drops some where between 3 and 6 mph than the bat speed. So from my perspective I want as high BS from correct mechanics to register a higher bev.

expect the outside swing speed was faster due to the longer swing radius - if you have the same rotational velocity (RPMs). Did you happen to compare BEV too?
Not necessarily. I would say the out side swing is one of the lower speeds I have encountered. Makes no sense does it should be shorter to ball. That may be why as you said hitter struggle with high heat out side.

Ball on tee is defiantly a more reliable speed than any other. When getting an avg you want as much consistency as possible to give it the truest chance of result

I like the quickness part also. To me thats what starts the swing and gives the highest BS

 

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I expect the outside swing speed was faster due to the longer swing radius - if you have the same rotational velocity (RPMs). Did you happen to compare BEV too?
Not necessarily. I would say the out side swing is one of the lower speeds I have encountered. Makes no sense does it should be shorter to ball.

Interesting. Are you getting slower readings on elite hitters like your DD? Are you repositioning the device behind the tee?

That may be why as you said hitter struggle with high heat out side.
My comment on high vs low pitches was meant to be separate from outside.

I like the quickness part also. To me thats what starts the swing and gives the highest BS

One analogy for quickness vs BS is drag racing where the car that hits the fastest top speed in the 1/4 mile doesn't always win the race. Some swings can take longer to go from launch to contact even though they reach a higher bat speed.

Sarge's point was that at some point additional BS becomes overkill - you don't get extra points based on how far over the fence it goes. He'd rather have a swing that produces more home runs than longer ones.

 

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Its all relative to the hitter isnt it?. Take a hitter 6 foot 195 with mid 80,s bs and bev around 80 can drive a ball 325, Opposite end of the spectrum, same swing mechanics, 5.2 85lb with mid 70,s swing speed and lower 70 bev can drive a ball 210 ft. So realizing where just enough bat speed and whats over kill, would deter from the swing to me no matter the size of the hitter. As long as shes not sacrificing speed for form I see no where it can be a negative process. After all the smaller hitter pound for pound is driving just as hard as the bigger hitter. And thats what I want each and every swing. I agree with more consistency on the long ball. Thats where a check of bs, bev and rvp can gain us the most bang for our buck. Power without average is useless.

Yes out side swings are defiantly slower, but what we have discovered is that the deeper the ball comes the less the loss of speed, Farther away from the back corner the slower the speed, the further away from the hips and rotation defiantly makes a difference. Yes the SPR is set up on the outside part of the tee just like we would do it down the middle.

I like the analogy in quickness, would you say that is in the same family of gassing the hips around the corner? Quicker hips = quicker hands sort of relationship?

 

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No one suggested additional bat speed is bad, just that at some point pursuing additional bat speed is less productive than improving consistency. I liken it to pitchers only working to improve their speed and not their location.

Hitters are supposed to let the ball get deeper on outside pitches, right? I used to have girls experiment with it in the cage so they could see the differences and find their best contact spot.

I don't know what you mean by "gassing the hips", so I can't answer your questions. I like Sarge's term, efficiency, which I interpret as the hips, arms and hands engaging in optimal movement, sequence and timing.