How many realistic pitches do you need?

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What about the age of the pitcher? At 9/10U, how many pitches should they have? At 11/12U? Etc. My dd has two and has been pitching since April. FB is good. Working on change up. Change up speed is good, hitting the spot no so much.

A pitching coach used to tell us "You never want to get beat on your 4th or 5th best pitch." This really applies to any pitch that is not as effective/reliable as your best pitches. Gary Haning's OC Batbusters won 18 Gold Nationals more than once with pitchers that only threw 2 pitches, but they owned those pitches and rarely missed their location by more than an inch.

A good FB and an offspeed are enough for 10u @ 35'. Many of the people that claim to throw other pitches at that age/distance aren't really getting enough movement to make a difference - they're just FBs by another name. I know my DDs curve and screw at that age were mainly a different angle from striding to the opposite side of the target.

It's easier to get movement on pitches at the longer distances. My preference is some sort of drop, but it depends on the girl - some pitches come easier than others. I recommend trying them - curve, drop and screw - and working on the one that seems the most promising. Riseballs don't really get the 'rise' effect until they're throwing 55-57 mph.

 

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Gary Haning's OC Batbusters won 18 Gold Nationals more than once with pitchers that only threw 2 pitches, but they owned those pitches and rarely missed their location by more than an inch.

I think the answer is right there. You only need 2 pitches. The one they can't hit and the one that doesn't do any harm when they do. Whichever pitches those are.

 

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A pitching coach used to tell us "You never want to get beat on your 4th or 5th best pitch." This really applies to any pitch that is not as effective/reliable as your best pitches. Gary Haning's OC Batbusters won 18 Gold Nationals more than once with pitchers that only threw 2 pitches, but they owned those pitches and rarely missed their location by more than an inch.

A good FB and an offspeed are enough for 10u @ 35'. Many of the people that claim to throw other pitches at that age/distance aren't really getting enough movement to make a difference - they're just FBs by another name. I know my DDs curve and screw at that age were mainly a different angle from striding to the opposite side of the target.

It's easier to get movement on pitches at the longer distances. My preference is some sort of drop, but it depends on the girl - some pitches come easier than others. I recommend trying them - curve, drop and screw - and working on the one that seems the most promising. Riseballs don't really get the 'rise' effect until they're throwing 55-57 mph.

Some good advice!

While it may make a parent feel good to brag about how their 10u DD has 5 pitches, that feeling will quickly fade as she gets older. You will realize that the time trying to learn all that "junk" at such a young age was wasted - what she SHOULD have been doing was far simpler. Just like a Realtor will tell you, it's all about 3 things: Location, location and location! SoCal is spot on.

ALL a 10u needs is accuracy, a fastball and a change-up. Nothing more, nothing less. Show me an effective 10u pitcher, and odds are those are the pitches she is throwing. At 12u, my DD was just learning the concept of spins, and those pitches were definitely not game-ready. She lived on WELL PLACED LOW fastballs at the knees, and a killer change-up. She was very good at setting up batters for her change-up, and was not afraid to throw it at any time. Many games were won that way, and the hits were mostly grounders where her team behind her had chances to make plays. Low and inside, low and outside and change of speed - bread n butter. She had a natural peel-drop, so that contributed to helping keep the ball down.

At 14u, spins become more important. 14u kids usually are starting to develop finger and forearm strength that allows better grip and spin mechanics than at 10u. At 14u, the spins allow learning combo pitches - drop curve, drop screw, etc. BUT - if the pitcher cannot locate a simple fastball and change-up, they have no business attempting to throw movement pitches in games! That's how injuries occur - guess where that belt-high hanging curve is going to be hit?

Speaking of the peel drop: It's an easy elementary pitch for young kids to learn. If the wrist is snapped up with enough force and well timed, she can get enough down-spin to create a decent drop. However, as kids get older, I have been told by certain experienced pitchers that a turnover drop is MUCH more effective at creating a higher spin rate, and better movement. But the turnover is very difficult for young kids - stick to the peel until the strength comes.

The rise usually isn't really effective until 16u and up. Some pitchers don't even perfect this pitch until they get to the college ranks.

I just can't stress enough how important it is for young kids to not get distracted trying to throw junk. Pinpoint accuracy is king - the more kids work on that from a young age, the better chance they have getting a nice scholarship to pitch at the DI college level.

 

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Some good advice!

While it may make a parent feel good to brag about how their 10u DD has 5 pitches, that feeling will quickly fade as she gets older. You will realize that the time trying to learn all that "junk" at such a young age was wasted - what she SHOULD have been doing was far simpler. Just like a Realtor will tell you, it's all about 3 things: Location, location and location! SoCal is spot on.

ALL a 10u needs is accuracy, a fastball and a change-up. Nothing more, nothing less. Show me an effective 10u pitcher, and odds are those are the pitches she is throwing. At 12u, my DD was just learning the concept of spins, and those pitches were definitely not game-ready. She lived on WELL PLACED LOW fastballs at the knees, and a killer change-up. She was very good at setting up batters for her change-up, and was not afraid to throw it at any time. Many games were won that way, and the hits were mostly grounders where her team behind her had chances to make plays. Low and inside, low and outside and change of speed - bread n butter. She had a natural peel-drop, so that contributed to helping keep the ball down.

At 14u, spins become more important. 14u kids usually are starting to develop finger and forearm strength that allows better grip and spin mechanics than at 10u. At 14u, the spins allow learning combo pitches - drop curve, drop screw, etc. BUT - if the pitcher cannot locate a simple fastball and change-up, they have no business attempting to throw movement pitches in games! That's how injuries occur - guess where that belt-high hanging curve is going to be hit?

Speaking of the peel drop: It's an easy elementary pitch for young kids to learn. If the wrist is snapped up with enough force and well timed, she can get enough down-spin to create a decent drop. However, as kids get older, I have been told by certain experienced pitchers that a turnover drop is MUCH more effective at creating a higher spin rate, and better movement. But the turnover is very difficult for young kids - stick to the peel until the strength comes.

The rise usually isn't really effective until 16u and up. Some pitchers don't even perfect this pitch until they get to the college ranks.

I just can't stress enough how important it is for young kids to not get distracted trying to throw junk. Pinpoint accuracy is king - the more kids work on that from a young age, the better chance they have getting a nice scholarship to pitch at the DI college level.

Some excellent advice coming from experience, especially about the dropball.

 

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I agree with So Cal that they need to try them all, work on all of them and some might be game ready one day and some another. These kids are not machines and there is by definition a learning curve. The concept that a pitch must be perfect before it is attempted in a game is just plain silly. The concept that a pitcher has to hit all her spots all the time before trying a new pitch is equally useless.

When your pitchers are learning a pitch nothing helps that pitch along than to throw it in a game, maybe with a 0-2 count to the 7th batter and 2 out-but throw the pitch. Perhaps the batter will swing at it and miss giving the pitcher a little more confidence to throw it again.

You have to look at these players as a work in progress and then help them on their way. Let them work on all of the pitches so that they can move onto to the next level. Help get them there and don't throw down more road blocks to their ultimate success.

My dd has been learning a curve; last week, it broke a good 12"+. She has attempted to throw that pitch in every practice and in every game for the last 8 years. Imagine for an instant that my DD was not permitted to throw a curve until it broke AND she could control it. She would be playing s----r.

 

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DD is 9u, she throws 5 pitches,she throws a bouncer to the catcher, an extreme rise over the catchers head, an inside hit batter pitch, right down the middle pitch, and baskins robbins ball,that one is named after the ice cream truck in the parking lot behind the back stop she hits.;&

Still howling!

 

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DD is 9u, she throws 5 pitches,she throws a bouncer to the catcher, an extreme rise over the catchers head, an inside hit batter pitch, right down the middle pitch, and baskins robbins ball,that one is named after the ice cream truck in the parking lot behind the back stop she hits.;&

Ok...I'll be the one to say it....
NOW THAT THAR IS FUNNY :lmao:

 

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I agree with So Cal that they need to try them all, work on all of them and some might be game ready one day and some another. These kids are not machines and there is by definition a learning curve. The concept that a pitch must be perfect before it is attempted in a game is just plain silly. The concept that a pitcher has to hit all her spots all the time before trying a new pitch is equally useless.

When your pitchers are learning a pitch nothing helps that pitch along than to throw it in a game, maybe with a 0-2 count to the 7th batter and 2 out-but throw the pitch. Perhaps the batter will swing at it and miss giving the pitcher a little more confidence to throw it again.

You have to look at these players as a work in progress and then help them on their way. Let them work on all of the pitches so that they can move onto to the next level. Help get them there and don't throw down more road blocks to their ultimate success.

My dd has been learning a curve; last week, it broke a good 12"+. She has attempted to throw that pitch in every practice and in every game for the last 8 years. Imagine for an instant that my DD was not permitted to throw a curve until it broke AND she could control it. She would be playing s----r.

It goes without saying that there comes a time when a pitch is "game ready" - maybe not perfect, but good enough to put into trial use in actual games. A 10u can "try" her change-up during games to see how it works. A 12u can "try" a drop-curve... etc. Isn't that common sense, and how a progression to learning a skill works? Problem is, there are FAR too many kids who "practice on stage" as I like to call it. Like a musician who didn't learn their parts at home on their own time, and is subjecting the rest of the group (their team) to their lack of discipline for learning. Kids who depend on "practicing" pitches that they've only tried to throw a few times in one lesson... those are the kids who are a danger to themselves. First off, their accuracy is all over the place, even on a basic fastball. Then they are encouraged to try throwing a pitch they have absolutely no command over to a skilled batter? Yep, those are the kids who should be wearing full body armour.

There is NO substitute for a combination of qualified pitching instruction and individual practice - LOTS of individual practice. A qualified instructor will be able to tell if the kid is ready to introduce new pitches in games. There comes a time for every new pitch, and sometimes it is a little rough getting it to work. Learning pitching is a gradual progression, and it is far too easy to get the cart before the horse.

Games are NOT the place to practice new pitches; games are the proving ground to test new pitches you have learned in lessons and individual practice. There is a HUGE difference. It just takes an understanding of the "Learn > Test" cycle. Get the pitch "game ready"; test the pitch in a game situation; Go back and work the bugs out in individual practice sessions. Before you even realize it, the pitch is working better every time, and it becomes a part of the pitcher's bag of tricks.

 

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DD is 9u, she throws 5 pitches,she throws a bouncer to the catcher, an extreme rise over the catchers head, an inside hit batter pitch, right down the middle pitch, and baskins robbins ball,that one is named after the ice cream truck in the parking lot behind the back stop she hits.;&

I keep coming back and rereading this and it's STILL funnier then ****!

 

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Sammy's term of 'testing' is a great concept. In todays travel-ball we are playing far to many games and not enough practice in order to get these pitches to a level that they can become game-tested.

A couple less tournaments and a lot more practice is in order.

 

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DD is 9u, she throws 5 pitches,she throws a bouncer to the catcher, an extreme rise over the catchers head, an inside hit batter pitch, right down the middle pitch, and baskins robbins ball,that one is named after the ice cream truck in the parking lot behind the back stop she hits.;&

I nominate this for best post of the summer
:yahoo:

 

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Sammy's term of 'testing' is a great concept. In todays travel-ball we are playing far to many games and not enough practice in order to get these pitches to a level that they can become game-tested.

A couple less tournaments and a lot more practice is in order.

Our progression was lessons and individual practice; team practice (live hitting); friendlies; pool games and finally bracket games. I recommend NOT starting another pitch until the others are at least very close to being game-ready or you're ready to replace one of them.

For the pre-HS age groups, we mainly played friendlies in the Fall and Winter. The number of tournaments in the Spring and Summer increased to a 50/50 mix with friendlies. We usually had a 2-3 hr practice midweek and a 3-4 hr practice on Friday and/or Saturday. The whole year was geared towards developing the ENTIRE team for Nationals and the other tournaments were just preparation and a means to check our progress.

 

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My DD had a very successful high school and D3 college pitching career throwing just 3 pitches ... an average fastball that she could put exactly where she wanted it (most of the time), a peel drop that she got a ton of ground ball outs with, and a knuckle change that was about 13-15mph slower than the other two but which she could usually throw for a strike on any count. Way too many girls out there trying to throw way too many pitches.

 

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Still trying to figure out what a realistic pitch is...

 

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Still trying to figure out what a realistic pitch is...

Its a pitch that a coach, a pitcher, a catcher and a pitchers parent can all agree on....not to many of those pitches out there......oh yea, and a umpire......

 

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My DD had a very successful high school and D3 college pitching career throwing just 3 pitches ... an average fastball that she could put exactly where she wanted it (most of the time), a peel drop that she got a ton of ground ball outs with, and a knuckle change that was about 13-15mph slower than the other two but which she could usually throw for a strike on any count. Way too many girls out there trying to throw way too many pitches.

The key to your DD's success. was to have one very good movement pitch (drop). The object of learning the different pitches from what I've observed in my DD's development, is not just learning to make the ball move, but to also learn to control the ball. To actually "feel" the pitch. I used to be a doubter, thinking how on earth can you make a 12" ball curve in such a short distance? Then I saw that ball move and I saw girls miss. She did too and that's why she works so hard on her spins. My DD learned the hard way last summer. She did not have her curve ball because she was tired and stiff. She then just spotted her fastball and change up. She got killed by a very good hitting Valley Extreme team. Inside pitch? No problem pull the ball. Outside pitch? Opposite field. Low pitch? wheelhouse. High pitch? To the fence. Change up? bloop it over the infield.
So I think the answer to the thread is simple. Location (fastball), change up, and one good movement pitch.

 

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The answer all depends on the level of play your playing. I can say the in the Gliac that Ashland University plays in you will never see fastballs.

 

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The answer all depends on the level of play your playing. I can say the in the Gliac that Ashland University plays in you will never see fastballs.

Never? I watched the college world series and they were throwing plenty of fastballs.

 

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"In the GLIAC." Pretty sure the pitchers' fastballs aren't 70+ there.

 

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Never? I watched the college world series and they were throwing plenty of fastballs.

Guess we watched a different College world series then. I guess when pitchers are throwing 68-72 it looks like fast balls.....so your right.....lol