If you were a coach would you ever teach...

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or encourage trying to throw out a runner at first from CF on a clean single ? I'm talking at the HS level . Our team tried to do it twice last night unsuccessfully and once threw it over 1B head by a bunch. The hitter was not a slapper and the Cf was playing shallow but not in the IF . My opinion it looks totally bush league and its something that should never be encouarged . We actually had a coach hollering -- One One One . am I behind the times and this situational play is perfectly legit ?

 

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Hey if the runner is loafing why not try to take advantage? I have seen this executed successfully and if you got nobody on and catcher backing up the throw what's the problem? Probably a low percentage play but I can see the batter-runner assuming they got the easy single and getting complacent about having to run. To me it shows heads up play by a good center fielder - especially when they do get the out and now it's the batter who looks bush league.

 

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If my CF has an arm and old clunky is running down the first base line. Throw her out.
My opponent wants base runners, I want none. In order for me to prevent base runners I have to throw them out. No brainer to me.

 

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I don't know if I would teach it but aggressive players often instinctively do unusual things. I saw that play executed successfully in a championship game a couple years ago. If I remember correctly, it ended the game.

 

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glad I ask , always eye opening to see how other people see the game. I would never teach or encourage it .

 

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I agree.

But I would make the CF aware of the opportunity - if you field the ball cleanly on one hop and if the batter can be timed with a sundial...

 

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Never had a CF with a good enough arm to pull it off, so wouldn't think of giving them free reign to do so. I guess it's not really any different then a hot shot to your RF and them throwing to first. It would solely depend on the athlete and the situation, as I have seen it be successful once or twice in my 16 plus years of coaching fastpitch.

A few weekends back I saw my daughters college team throw from CF to first two different times, after the girl had successfully reached first. One went flying into the dugout allowing the runner to go on to second. That runner eventually scored and they lost 1-0. Man Dan....I was thinking the same thing you were!!! What are they teaching these girls!!!

 

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How is it any different than a RF throwing to third?

 

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I've had a center fielder throw out girls at 1st twice in the same game. Why not? You can teach them to live in a box or you can teach them how to throw and catch. Have a little faith baby. lol. That's how big plays make highlight reels. Of course the girls should understand the consequences of a play gone bad but if they are capable, go for it. In our case, the first girl/runner was trotting down the line after a hard hit to center prompting the throw. The second girl being more aware ran the line and rounded 1st too hard/fast and fell trying to stop. The throw was on the money while they were left totally hanging out to dry. That center fielder was amazing in arm and range. I've never forgot her.

 

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DD's team practiced this all the time, last two years. It kept the outfielders aggressive and you would catch a runner rounding 1st thinking throw is going to 2nd, caught couple of runners being lazy. This was in travel ball.
I've yet to see this tried in college ball.

 

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I guess i can agree that under rare circumstances that play can be attempted . Girl loafing down the line ... CF has a cannon .. let it rip . Over aggresive baserunning team AND you have a very experienced , very talented , well oiled defensive unit you might throw behind the runner at first. ( those circumstances certainty dont apply here) But we tried it twice in a 5 inning game. neither successful , and one ended up in orbit . Our CF is a tremendous athlete , great arm, but there was no rare circumstance that warranted a chance at an out at first . The first attempt was on their lead off hitter , just a average single to CF , kid was certainly not slow nor loafing . So we air mail that one .. then try it again 2 innings later ?

 

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How is it any different than a RF throwing to third?

runner on 1st is a whole diff situation than a runner reaching third .

 

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How is it any different than a RF throwing to third?

The distance? Lol

 

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DD's team practiced this all the time, last two years. It kept the outfielders aggressive and you would catch a runner rounding 1st thinking throw is going to 2nd, caught couple of runners being lazy. This was in travel ball.
I've yet to see this tried in college ball.

you mean you practiced throwing BEHIND the runner or just attempted to throw her out before she touches first ?

 

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runner on 1st is a whole diff situation than a runner reaching third .

Throw her out at 1st, she has 0% chance of reaching 3rd. Give her 1st and her chances increase greatly (I don't actually know the percentage).

 

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Had this happen once at 11U, twice at 12U, once at 13, and once so far at 14U. The last one was a hard shot up the middle that one hopped to the CF traveling to her left (glove side). The CF threw a perfect strike to first on the run to save a no-hitter. Heads up play, but it's never practiced or encouraged.

In all 5 cases, the runner was out at 1B. Saw it attempted 2 other times where the throw was on target, but the runner beat out the throw.

Like I said, this isn't something that kids are instructed to do, but certain players with a developed situational awareness will pull this one off on their own. I don't see any good reason to discourage them from thinking on their own and testing their abilities. It's their game to play...allow them to take ownership of it. Of course, if it totally blows up on them and hurts the team, it's on them as well. Risk vs. Reward.

At the HS level, I see lots of the opposite problem. Marginal outfielders who loaf to a fly ball, only to hold up and keep it in front of them...at times with empty bases.

Of these two scenarios, which one is easier to "fix?"

I actually saw this attempted once by a left-fielder in the Spano Dome at 12U from a guest player from a well-known high-level team. Good throw, but late by about half a step.

Luckily, none of these occurred in a tight game which would have affected the outcome either way. Play loose and play confident.

I'm sure that a runner thrown out from RF looks odd or bush league to most fans of baseball as well. Though it's not that uncommon in softball.

 

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Our High School Team does this every time the ball takes the CF towards first. Most of the time it's not to catch the runner loafing but to pick the runner off rounding first thinking it's a routine single. This is the first year this play has been part of the defense and it concerned me at first also but the more I see it the more I am ok with the attempt. You can even get a few outs on over throws with the catcher, as the backup, would love to gun a runner out trying to get to second.

 

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We teach CF to throw into second, but if the runner was reaaaaal slow and CF feilded the ball quickly and cleanly i could see them taking a shot if no one is on base.

We have had right field thow runners out at 1st, DD threw out a runner at third from LF last week, and had CF throw a runner out at first last year but she was playing shallow and ball landed right behind 2nd base.

 

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you mean you practiced throwing BEHIND the runner or just attempted to throw her out before she touches first ?

Both, I thought it was crazy but they insisted on throwing and worked. Our of times.

i don't want my DD doing it n high school

 

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There are many situations I question why they are done. But this one seems rather harmless.

Here are some others that are not so harmless:

- 2 outs and facing bottom of lineup and runner on 3rd: why oh why is catcher trying to pick her off 3rd base?
- additionally, when there is a runner on why is an outfielder or for that matter an infielder throwing the ball to the pitcher from the edge of the grass, once a runner is on it should be jogged in and underhanded or handed off. This habit makes me go crazy.

Ok I am getting off track.