If your dd is looking at colleges, please read. I wish someone had told me.

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We feel very deceived by our daughter's ex-college coach and guilt for sending her into a horrible situation. Don't do your girls a dis-service by being afraid to ask hard uncomfortable questions. Ask if there is a code of conduct or ethics for the coaching staff and get a copy. If there are ANY signs of immaturity or unprofessionalism, take heed. If there has been mass exodus, records that historically deteriorate over the season or very small rosters by the end of the year, huge red flag, no matter what explanation you get. Girls don't work that hard for years to give up on it in such numbers ... no matter how logical the excuse. Girls want to play for good coaches who encourage a healthy competitive culture. When they go on official visits they should ask girls if they like playing for the coach. They should hear excited enthusiastic inspired answers. If you are too afraid to ask these type of questions because you don't want to offend and risk not getting an offer, you could be throwing her to the wolves. Good coaches would not be offended. We had believed coaches to be people who inspire by their passion for the game and promote integrity, honor and team. Not all of them ... and even at the upper levels. She's gotten thru the "hard" part and had much success this fall. But what we can not condone anymore is the abusive, bullying coach. Daily personal, degrading remarks can only be heard so long before you start to believe them and begin to question. Literally dictating whereabouts and actions on a moment by moment basis daily. Policing who you can talk to or socialize with. Intentionally being hurtful, insulting intelligence and family, badgering and belittling until the wee hours of the morning when 5 am alarms are going off in 2-3 hours is not acceptable treatment of my daughter under any circumstances. Not to mention the walks across campus to the dorm, alone, in the middle of the night. The scary part of this is the above is a classical description of an abusive relationship. The sad part? She endured this abuse for weeks for the love of the game ... only. All her scholarship money had come from academics, so she had nothing to lose ... except the thrill of taking the field. She is grieving that mightily. My hard nosed, hard working daughter who never has quit anything in her life has quit softball, not school, with our blessings. Already she is regaining her confidence and her old self. Today she told me its the best decision she's made in her whole life. She felt she was a good person and raised right. She didn't want to spend 4 years with those people because she didn't want them to change her in a bad way. She is sorry for disappointing all the people that have helped her and supported her. I'm sorry for allowing her to go to that situation and will deal with that for the rest of my life. Don't let this happen to you. If it seems to be too good to be true ... it probably is.

 

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I'm sorry for you and your DD's bad experience, but I thank you for the advice.

 

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...Don't do your girls a dis-service by being afraid to ask hard uncomfortable questions. Ask if there is a code of conduct or ethics for the coaching staff and get a copy. If there are ANY signs of immaturity or unprofessionalism, take heed. If there has been mass exodus, records that historically deteriorate over the season or very small rosters by the end of the year, huge red flag, no matter what explanation you get... When they go on official visits they should ask girls if they like playing for the coach.

As a college coach, I agree with everything I quoted from the post. I don't know and don't want to know what school is involved here. I tell each of my visitors and their parents to ask literally anything you want of me and our players. Ask why I am divorced or about my political beliefs if you want, I don't care. (nobody has done either of those!). With our players, we simply tell them not to talk bad about other schools to recruits. Otherwise, just tell them the truth, for good or ill.

I don't know that many schools have an official code of conduct or ethics for coaches. I'm imagine there is a general code of conduct, but I don't think it's going to be very helpful to read it. Some code that probably is never read is not going to keep a bully coach from being a bully. If someone asked me to see our athletic department's code of conduct, I'd have to check to see if we even have one. I would simply tell them that my code of conduct comes from years of formal and informal education and years of experience in coaching and in the work world.

 

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There are bad apples no matter what level you are at. Some college coaches are just as bad as some of the horrible rec and travel coaches I've seen. ALWAYS ask questions when you visit, no matter how difficult they are. Definately talk to the other players, they will be honest either way. This is the next 4+ years of your life, get as much information as you can or it will bite you right in the a$$!!!

 

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It is a shame that your daughter can't play the game she loves and still get a great education.

One thing a coach can't hide is their rosters, most schools post their historic rosters. Take a look at a few years back and note the number of freshman that become seniors on that team. If a bunch of Freshman start the program but then become just a few Seniors; that is a huge red flag. Make sure your daughters talk to the sophomores about their experience.

As an example one of the Ohio Schools started with 7 freshman and has only one player left as a senior. I'd want to know why. Ask the coach and ask the players. Find out about practice and what they learn, what the road trips are like. What punishment does the coach dish out and for what infractions... etc.

Also look at the players stats over time/cross reference to the rooster. If a player never gets an at-bat or an inning pitching when the team plays 50+ games then perhaps you might want to pass on that school. I looked at one D-3 program and 9 players on the roster shared 16 at bats all season, I bet that was not a happy team. That will run a red flag up. If that fall-off is the rule then that should be a huge red flag.

By all means ask the coach the tough questions especially if you have these stats in hand and know what to look for. If you don't like the answers, then your dd had better love the school. A successful won/loss record of the school doesn't automatically translate into a grand experience for your daughter. You must look beyond that.

 

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Thank you for the advise. This will be in our "not so far" off future & it is good to know what to look for.

 

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Pride...You have been a member on here for a very long time. Not much input, but plenty of reading and listening over the years, which tells me alot about you as a person. Knowing that, I'm sure you didn't go off and just send your DD off to a school without a little background work of your own, so don't beat yourself up to bad. You can never get a full idea of a school by going to the website or talking with the coaches or even the players.
My DD is now a freshman and we made 4-5 visits before she commited. Had a really good feeling going in, but even she has seen things a little differently now that she is there. Not big things like you mentioned...but just the environment, and being around people and things she never encountered in small town Ohio. She has been back nearly every weekend, and its tough when she heads back...but I see her growing as a person, and that is exciting to me as a dad, because I've micro-managed so much of her life. Each day brings new challenges and opportunities for growth as a person. Sorry she has had to go through this, but with your guidance and understanding she will be a better person because of it. Best of Luck!!!

 

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I have 3 daughters playing travel but I have no idea if any of the 3 will play in college. I have one that is exceptional but is too young to really project into a level of college.

But I have read that you need to really do your research on the type of players a coach likes. And also look at how they handle the bench. My wife has coached many girls that have played in college. She has had the D1 all-american and the D3 just wants to keep playing. And the one thing that has joined them all is finding the right fit. My wife has a ton of connections and resources to college coaches so we will be lucky in that we will have a ton of behind the scenes data if we even have the opportunity.

One question I have is how involved was your HS coach? My daughters future HS coach played D1 and knows everyone. And will guide her players to the good guys verses the nut jobs. It sounds like you did not have a mentor to help guide you through the maze. It really helps to have someone who knows you and the coaches to help you find the right fit.

 

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The above description sounds a lot like a coach in Tennessee. While he loses a few players every year, some are forced to continue to play because they need the scholarship. I can never stress enough the importance of spending the night with the girls. We should have seen it as a red flag when the coach said our daughter could not spend the night because they had a scrimmage the next day. We are sure that the real reason was because he didn't want our daughter asking questions about him as a coach when he wasn't around.

Please note there is something else that is very important. A coach also needs to be able to know the game as well as understand the female body and what it can endure. If you see a lot of softball-related injuries on the team, let it be a warning sign. Try to get a copy of their conditioning workout--does it make sense for a female athlete? If your daughter is a pitcher or catcher, what type of practice do they have? Does it make sense?

 

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There were many people and coaches along the way to offer support and advice. Use the heck out of any of that you can, but do not fail to do your own research. Aren't we sometimes totally shocked by who we find out is the wife beater or molester living a few doors away? Public persona and who they are behind locker room doors can be totally different. There will be outward signs if you are willing to look at them for what they truly are and stay away. Look at the cold hard facts and data available to you on websites. Go to camps and be very aware of verbal and non-verbal responses from team members. Definitely stay away from the "nut jobs", but do your homework on the "good guys" as well. You don't want your dd trapped in a horrible situation for financial reasons. You want them to be influence by people who will help them grow and become better people like knight's dd even it it stings a little. JoeA has integrity and isn't afraid of what his girls may say to recruits. I want to point out that this had nothing to do with the softball, playing time, public treatment or anything related, it was personal attacks and humiliation on who she is and her values. It was about extreme treatment and efforts to get her to break ties with any outside support system. Its really about my strong, tough leader of a daughter being emotionally beat into a person I no longer recognized who was scared to do anything and beginning to show outward signs of depression because of it. That's not growth or becoming stronger by any definition. Teams emotionally torn down and torn apart will show it. They do what they have to to get thru and keep their scholarships.

 

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About 70 plus of you know me well enough to have used me as a reference and I tried to warn you ahead of time and still you charged on for various reasons. Just because they are NCAA coaches in some case makes them no better than high school coaches who do not return phone calls to college coaches and I quote, "X girl does not deserve to play at the next level and I will not support her!" Then the girl becomes an NCAA All American!

Some of the NCAA coaches D1 through D3 have got away with mental abuse, physical abuse and mind control because they control the purse strings and do not think for a minute the AD's are not aware of it. If it was the boys in my opinion, heads would roll especially on the money makers such as football and basketball programs.

One girl recently left a program after she was there 4 days, not one of mine, however what were her or the parents thinking when they visited!

Looking at the turn over rates and transfers after one or two years says you the parent may have wanted it more than your daughter did.

You nay Sayers can come to the defense of YOUR coaches however the records of the coaches and the inability of some AD's to take action is a joke, especially when the softball coaches are assistant AD's! :lmao:

Most of us know who these coaches are and so do you if you are truly honest and are not kissing butt in hopes that your daughter will be playing there some day and that is D1 through D3 and NAIA in my opinion.

You go to their clinics and see what and how they teach and surely must wonder if Team USA, Team Canada, Team Australia and Team Japan do not use these techniques, why would these Midwest teams not want to do what they do?

Pick the college for education first and if you want a second job, play a sport as that is exactly what it is a second job. For the girls, I especially suggest they check with the local police on crime, rape and break in's. Then visit the campus at 10 PM and see how well it is lighted and do you feel safe walking from your car or running to the dorm!

Carrie and Shayne know exactly what I am talking about.

I am truly sorry for your daughters misfortune....a person once told me it is like buying a car and bragging about how little you paid for it and then something went wrong and you need service on the car and the great price was soon forgotten because the service department was so poor!

So are some of these coaches promises of we won't change her swing or pitching mechanics and we will work with her on clinical's since she has to drive so far and miss practices. Then after you sign it changes!

 

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Pick the college for education first

This doesn't get said nearly enough. I can't tell you how many girls we've met who decided they either didn't like playing softball in college or couldn't handle the academics+softball load.

Pick the college education first.

 

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Wow so unfortunate, but so true, so many get caught up in the chase of the brass ring that they have blinders on going in. Just look each year of how many great young ladies who play the game are walking away from the game. Many it's due to time commitments and balancing the college workload, missing home, A@@hole coaches and everything else. At the end of the day they are our daughters first, ballplayers second and we need to keep them safe and sane!!

Don't have them do anything because we as parents want them to, but make sure and drive home it's what they truly want.

Some great advice above by everyone!!

 

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You know this is good advice at all levels, I've lived it and feel you and your dd pain.

 

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Pride,
I'm sorry your daughter had to experience this. I went through a very similar experience, where there were personal attacks, mental abuse, and constant demoralizing treatment to me, other members of the team and the team as a whole. It's emotionally draining, you are constantly hoping to just get through practice without screwing up so that you aren't attacked. After a double header on the weekend, win or loss, if the coaches weren't satisfied you were going to get an ear full. We would sit out in the grass of the outfield for more than an hour to hear that we ****ed, we were embarrassing and they were disgusted by us. After the first ten minutes, all the players had tuned them out, and instead all we could think about was how freezing we were, how mortified we were that our parents were watching/hearing this dressing down, how we still had a 12 hour drive back and so many other things, while the coaches were carrying on.

One of the things that I learned was in the coaches' mind, they were great. They gave you or taught you everything you needed to succeed. If we lost, it was because we weren't competitive, we weren't mentally strong enough, or so mother reason, but it was never the coaches fault. Instead, what all the players were thinking is, we are going to get lectured if we lost, won by 1 run, or won by a lot, so nothing we ever did was good enough. It became easier to just take the dressing down, than to try to please them because that wasn't possible. It was EMOTIONALLY DRAINING!

The unfortunate thing is the coaches never exposed the recruits to this. If you practiced with the team, she would talk to the recruit first, and then send her on her way after practice and then we would get our lecture after she left. I learned that the girls were scared to be honest with recruits because they would pay for it later. Now, I don't complain about running or conditioning for errors, mental abuse is worse than physical punishment. On top of that, if you weren't one of the coaches' favorites, you just give up on trying to earn praise.

While I made some great friends and have a lot of good memories, no thanks to the coaches, but thanks to my teammates, bad experiences do exist!! I was asked many times why don't you quit? but I felt like if I quit I was letting them win. I was tougher than anything they were going to throw at me, and I wanted to play. Like many people have talked about, the high turnover rate is very present at this school. I was one of 11 freshman, and three of us finished. The year before us had no seniors finish, and the year before that only 1 of seven finished!

Making a college decision is hard enough as it is, let alone adding in softball, money and coaches it is difficult. A great support system helps and ultimately you have to do what is safest for your well being! Pride it sounds like your daughter did just that!

 

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Hitter, you are so right about picking the college for education first. Our oldest picked her college because she received a full academic ride at a school that had her major and was reputable. Giving up her softball scholarship didn't hurt too much. It is sad that she didn't get to play softball her last year at school, but she got what she went to school for--a great education.

Hitter, you would also be proud of the little one. She is really developing as a player and a leader.

 

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I just want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences -- for good or for ill.

My dd is beginning the college search, and you've really given me something to think about.

Player abuse like this puts a different spin on DI/DII vs. DIII. Am I right in thinking that the coaches who can't control scholarship money are less domineering?

 

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Brineyman; DO NOT make that assumption! You would certainly expect that a D3 coach would be more sensitive and careful without athletic money controlling the players ultimate actions but that is not always the case.

We teach our girls to be tough and not to quit, that is what has got them to this level. It will take a couple of seasons for your dd to realize that she doesn't need this **** and then to actually give up on a game she loves. Meanwhile the coach has another class of two of fresh meat (freshmen) to replace those that go AWOL. The AD's don't interfere with a functioning program and seem to have very little oversight of the individual teams and none over coach's techniques.

As an example; a parent complained about the coach at my daughters school and the players ran suicides for an hour and a half all the while enduring a rant about parents. The players begged their parents not to complain to anyone, ever. The coach was rehired and the upper class-men fled. This was at a D3 program.

Their are idiot coaches at all levels. I've seen this type of abuse at the D3 level up close and personal.

 

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My daughter has gone through almost the same situation at her college. Asking questions doesn't always help though. They are instructed that if a recruit asks them how they like playing for this coach and college, they are not allowed to say anything negative and can only recommend coming to that college. If the coach finds out they said anything negative, all h-ll breaks loose and they pay for it. My daughter is not a quitter either and continues to endure all the abuse. We keep hoping that she will eventually realize she can still love the game but that putting up with the abuse is not worth it. She also chose her college because if academics and that's what we keep trying to remind her that she's there for.

 

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Thank you all for your kind supportive words. I'm certain that if her teammates had been treated the same way she would still be there. We worry about who might be the next target and if they will be financially able to escape. Recruits will hear the company line regardless and I think it's important to take your dd's to camps. There you will have the opportunity to interact with players and will be able to read those all important non-verbal cues. There is definitely something wrong when players and parents are pressured into hiding mistreatment by the fear of further mistreatment of their daughters. Just not willing to participate in that mess or subject my kids to it. It does my heart good to see how many people have taken the time to read this thread and those who have added to the dialogue. These are issues I think parents need to be keenly aware of, I wasn't or didn't realize the importance of it. The person controlling your daughter's life over those 4 years has a scary amount of influence on her and better have her best interests at heart. Please take the advice from all the posters very seriously. It is my hope that the perspective will help you to steer your dd's toward good people and away from the heartache our family feels now.