Hitting and Hitters Discussion late swing

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My DD is consistantly swinging late. Her swing is okay, well maybe sometimes she dips, but for the most part is late. Her coach has worked on it, and so have I, but I cannot get her to start that swing any sooner, she wants to hit it on top of the plate, and waits til the ball gets there. Any suggestions?

 

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hope you get some responses --sometimes against the cream of the crop type arm my dd does the same thing. My response this fall is to crank up the pitching machine to 60-61 mph (13u in 09) and let her get used to it. I don't know any other way , hire a flame thrower to throw live BP ? MD

 

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One thing to look at is to see if the back elbow is moving first and getting ahead of the hands. That will cause a dipping appearance and cause the elbow to be ahead of the hands creating a bad first move. I am sure others will way in on this but that is a my novice opinion of the first thing to look at.

 

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Does she only do this vs. live pitching only, or a machine as well?

 

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It would be nice to have a clip...however lets try this...we use the term dancing with the pitcher. The pitcher never stops their motion once they start and as a hitter we want to match their motion with ours.

When the pitcher starts their up swing motion with the ball in their hand, we load by doing a simple knee cock motion or turning the lead foot knee inward slightly and as the pitcher gets to their K position where the ball is at the 12 o'clock position or is directly over her head, we go to toe touch. We tell our hitters think slow to load soft to step on a flexed front knee and land on the inside edge of the lead foot on the edge of the foot towards the big toe with the baby toe off the ground slightly. If you see and feel the hip move forward a little, that is the linear phase of the stride and that will not happen unless the knee is flexed or bent a little. If you land stiff legged the hip action stops or if you land on all five toes it, the hips will stop.

We want to be at toe touch prior to the pitchers release of the ball. To get them use to this have the pitcher stand in front of a mirror and turn their lead shoulder to the mirror and you stand behind them and off to the side a little and go through the pitching motion with them slowly and the hitter picks up the pitchers moves with their moves or dances with the pitcher. On the up swing of the pitchers arm the hitter loads, at the K position the hitter goes to toe touch and when the ball is at the pitchers side or what we term window of release we swing. IMPORTANT make sure you are far enough away from the hitter so you do not get hit when they swing. Boulders dad tried this and if you have ever seen his face you will see why keeping a safe distance is critical!

Explain to the hitter what we term time relevance as to the hitters and pitchers positions so they have an idea how fast this really takes place. Blink your eyes twice as fast as you can and this about one second. Jenny Finch can come from the 12 o'clock position (directly over her head) to the release position (directly at her hip) in .12 to .17 hundredths of a second. Once she releases the ball it will cross home plant in about .24 to.28 hundredths of a second and that is still less than .40 hundredths of a second or less than the blink of an eye! Being at the toe touch position prior to her release is critical in my opinion to a hitter being on time or dancing with the pitcher.

Another drill is to use a catch net and put a ball on a tee and then you get on the other side of the tee and go through your pitchers motion and throw towards the bottom of the net. CAUTION do not use a real softball, use a lite flight or whiffle ball as sometimes the hitter can actually hit the incoming pitch with the ball off the tee and you can get hit by the rebounding of the two balls, so throw low to the net to be safe. I can not confirm this however Statman Ray claims when you dress in pink it helps him throw harder!

Something we do to help the hitter keep their head in the contact zone during their swing is too glue a white rag into the tee tube so the hitter focuses on keeping their head down during and after the swing.

When doing side soft toss as I lower my hand they load and as I toss they step to hit. Again make sure they are looking at something through the net to simulate there is a pitchers release point so they will track the ball and not just stare at the ball on the tee, get them use to giving the head a head start and then using just the eyes to track the ball as they hit it off the tee.

Hope this helps...

 

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I will try this with a wiffle ball, unforturately I cannot pitch, AT ALL. She can hit the ball off of a machine, I am pretty sure she see the ball well too. It's in her mind to wait, wait, wait and that great for a change up, but on fastball, she either fowls it off, or it's coming off of the skinny part of her bat and going nowhere, easy out at first. Thanx for the input and we'll keep working this winter and through fall ball.

 

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hope you get some responses --sometimes against the cream of the crop type arm my dd does the same thing. My response this fall is to crank up the pitching machine to 60-61 mph (13u in 09) and let her get used to it. I don't know any other way , hire a flame thrower to throw live BP ? MD

Dan we do not use a pitching machine for batting practice...with that said we use it for timing and rhythm. The hitter sets up almost to where the umpires positions them self or even a little farther back. Then after each swing we have them take one step towards the machine. When they get to the point where the ball can not be hit because the the ball is too high or is above the hands considering elbow, hand and bat angled or slopping at a downward angle, then reverse your step and start going backwards after each swing until the ball is too low to hit.

We consider this as creating a swing DNA as we MUST adjust to each pitch as to height and speed and that is timing and rhythm. We feel if you see different speeds and heights and you start to remember the flight of the ball and will make mental adjustments faster in a game situation as the pitcher is working in, out and up and down. Also step away from the plate for opposite field hitting and in on the plate for inside pitches and to go up and back. One cycle is up and back then get out and take a break...too many swings and they get tired and the swing starts breaking down and you are wasting your time. This is a ballistic sport not an endurance sport.

Also remember when feeding the pitching machine to have a ball in your left hand and keep it in the feeder tube and do an arm swing with the right hand and feed the ball into the tube with your right hand when the ball is directly over your head. This gives them a pitchers motion and timing and rhythm in my opinion. I see too many people fumbling around trying to feed the the ball into the tube and the hitters get frustrated and their timing gets thrown off.

I also see this during warm ups when they front toss so quickly the can not even get set up...I've never seen a pitcher throw like that so why would a coach or parent do it and destroy their timing and rhythm right before a game?

 

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Howard- I like the move forward in and back for speed and height, will experiment tonight. My dd use to struggle vs. live pitching also, being very late with her swing. She would pound the ball off the machine (we use only for timing), turned out she was simply tightening up, to the point her shoulders would sort of bunch up.

 

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That's kinda what she looks like Shockwave, how did you get her to stop?

 

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It took time and lots of reps vs. live pitching to get her comfortable. Along Howards' line of thought, we did lots of soft toss as well to get her into a routine and rhythm. As Howard describes, as the pitcher starts her motion upward, dd loads, and as pitcher starts down w/arm, she goes to toe touch. When we do soft toss, it's always a windmill pitch with varying speeds and have dd stay in rhythm. It's amazing how much confidence and staying loose/ relaxed affects the swing.

 

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To greatly simplify the matter-- and it IS a simple matter-- please have your daughter watch a professional baseball (or softball) game sometime. Tell her to watch how the hitters are attacking the pitch by beginning their "loading" process and other mechanics of hitting the ball as it is being thrown. If she waits to see the ball first, a fast pitcher will blow it by her. This is more of a mental issue than a physical one. Good hitters are fearless. Good hitters attack the ball. They don't REACT to the ball. Good hitters believe that every pitch is going to be a big, fat, basketball that they're going to kill.

In short: Start the mechanics earlier. Attack the ball fearlessly. If your daughter is not "checking" her swing every time she makes a decision to take a pitch, then she's not attacking the ball.

 

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I agree with you it is a simple mattrer, we played 12-u last year and she hit great, nice line drive base hits, this year we remained at 12-u and something happened. Believe me, she is one obsessed baseball fan, watches contantly. I believe it is a mental issue, maybe to tight or to nervous about the change up. I do believe she did attack the ball and now does not, and it has compounded the issue. I just cannot get her to swing earlier against live pitching. I can i get her to relax, be confident, and still attack?

 

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Howard has hit a big concept right on the head. I have stressed to my girls for years that Hitting is like dancing. It is all rythm and timing. Most girls have this rythm down and when they hit on a pitching machine, they perfect that timing. In their head they can go though each step 1, 2, 3...

Live pitching changes that, but it doesn't have to. There is not set standard or way and every girl does things a bit different, but a simple concept is the three Rs. Ready, Recognize, React. When young girls see live pitching they wait too long to get Ready. Thus, the rest of the steps are late. Getting to the ready state is the key. Then we only have to recognize and react, essentially cutting the actions down 33% (only 2 of the 3 Rs remain). The ready part has to be done earlier, like Howard was saying...during the pitchers movements. I preach the short front toe tap, not a big step or high leg kick, like Howard described. Once she is really "ready" the rest will come, just like off the pitching machine. I would focus on the drills that will help her learn when to be ready faster. In my opinion, even being to early is better than being to late.

 

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All interesting thoughts....keeping the hitter focused on the pitchers timing and rhythm is key to having the hitter in the correct position prior to the ball being released.

For me that is what we term the attack mode...that is being at toe touch on a flexed front knee on the inside edge of the lead foot so the hips have moved linear and the hands have separated or are rearward or as Elliot puts it drawing the bow string rearward. Think when you throw a ball the foot is forward and the hand is back. We step to throw and we do not step and throw at the same time or we are out of sequence.

In this position and in less than the blink of an eye as I have already explained the hitter has to make a decision to swing or not swing. To get to the attack mode we have them load first thinking from the belly button down and doing a simple knee cock or inward turn and then thinking slow to load soft to step on a flexed front knee with the hands separated.

Now pause in this position and then ask them to swing as hard as they can and look for any additional movements such as taking the hands more rearward or having to step again or turning the shoulders in more to gain momentum. If they had to make any additional movements then they were not in an efficient position in their attack mode. This creates the lag time in making the position adjustments with their body and causes timing errors in my opinion because they are not in the position with their hip forward and hands back.

In our opinion if you are not at toe touch prior to the ball being released you can not make a decision soon enough. This is why we spend so much time in front of mirror so they can see them self in the mirror while the pitcher is in their motion to deliver the ball.

If they are in their attack mode, in my opinion, you could speed up the pitching or slow it down and they will hit anything being thrown however they will most likely not have enough momentum to hit a home run HOWEVER we have had a few that did....some are even going to the attack mode with two strikes!

We say see it, feel and fix it and the mirrors help them to do those things faster than anything we have ever done.

Maybe another way to think about it is when throwing a ball we have them break out of the glove so the hand with the ball is down and the elbow is up and then they circle up with the ball hand and lead with the elbow to throw the ball. By only coming up to their ear for example would not allow for the momentum to build and we would not have a strong throw or they would feel out of sink because as they stepped to throw the hand with the ball in it never went all the way back just like if they did not separate the hands rearward when they are hitting.

Momentum during the load phase to toe touch is critical and MUST be done prior to the pitcher releasing the ball.

 

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It sounds to me like another problem is indecision. Everything posted above is good sound advice for timing. It will help her. However, your DD still needs to pull the trigger so to speak. A major component of hitting very seldom talked about is attitude. The hitter has to be confident that they will make good contact with the ball. If there is any doubt in their mind, the chances of making good contact drop dramatically. Also, what part of the pitcher does your DD focus on when batting? She should get an idea of the pitcher's timing by observing the pitcher from the bench. When she is up to bat, once the pitcher starts her windup your DD should focus on an area just above and outside the pitchers trail knee. If she's not focusing on anything in particular pertaining to the pitcher during the windup, that will also retard her reaction time because she is probably not picking the ball up until it is half way to home plate. She needs to focus on picking up the ball from the release. My suggestion is follow the ideas of the above posts, and talk to her about attitude, confidence, and focus.

Len

 

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I will add this:

Spending less time standing outside the box staring at the third base coach --and more time inside the box getting ready to hit is always beneficial. Coaches who critique every single swing by every single player are doing far more harm than good. Players who look for signs when they're up with nobody on base, or with two strikes, are just dependent robots. The coach has NO SIGN FOR YOU when you've got two strikes. Hit the ball. If he/she demands that you look down there even with two strikes, then tell him/her to buy a dog if he/she needs more attention.

 

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I will add this:

Spending less time standing outside the box staring at the third base coach --and more time inside the box getting ready to hit is always beneficial. Coaches who critique every single swing by every single player are doing far more harm than good. Players who look for signs when they're up with nobody on base, or with two strikes, are just dependent robots. The coach has NO SIGN FOR YOU when you've got two strikes. Hit the ball. If he/she demands that you look down there even with two strikes, then tell him/her to buy a dog if he/she needs more attention.

TT08 hit the nail on the head.

 

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My dd uses howard's method (btw i cant thank you and john enough mandan for taking her to the wright state clinic) it has taken a little while for most everything to come around to her but this last weekend at the jamboree the hitting method took off like a rocket,I was very proud of her standing in the box with CONVIDECE while slightly moving the bat around which is part of her timing method,loading then attacking the ball.Her bat.average was very very good and her power was starting to come along as well.
But the one thing that the coaches were pointing out(mabey you can answer this for me howard) was that it appeared to them when she was taking a ball she appeared to be lunging forward.I told them if she has it in her mind to attack the ball on every pitch wouldn't the body appear to shift forward as the hands stay back?

 

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I am not sure who you are however I will try to answer your question, IF she landed on her front foot and allowed it, the hip to go linear or maybe to think sitting on the front leg, the momentum went forward and that is the concept...the pitcher does not stop and neither should the hitter in their motion and we will crush her ie the pitcher! Please remember this happens in less than the blink of an eye!

 

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I will add this:

Spending less time standing outside the box staring at the third base coach --and more time inside the box getting ready to hit is always beneficial. Coaches who critique every single swing by every single player are doing far more harm than good. Players who look for signs when they're up with nobody on base, or with two strikes, are just dependent robots. The coach has NO SIGN FOR YOU when you've got two strikes. Hit the ball. If he/she demands that you look down there even with two strikes, then tell him/her to buy a dog if he/she needs more attention.

I disagree...I give players signs with 2 strikes and off and on throughout the entire count. I have had several girls receive the bunt sign with 2 strikes and get on with an unexpected bunt for a hit. Take what the defense gives you, no matter what the count is.