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I bunt on many third strikes and have won many games doing so. I preach take what the defense gives you. I have some kids I don't even have to tell them to bunt. I think Howard stated one thing that many kids don't handle well. The freeze like a statue and if you don't dance with the pitcher ( Big Motion , little motion) you are late.
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I have a question for you Howard, what do you mean by the separation of the hands? I am trying to fumble my way through this, it sometimes just takes me a while. Thanx, Kim
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Kim when you throw you normally step to throw and after you step, you break your hand out of the glove and take your ball hand downward and then back and upward and lead with the elbow and throw to develop momentum....you stepped forward and your throwing hand went in the opposite direction or separated rearward.
When hitting we bend at the waist and then soften the knees to become balanced and we first load by doing an inward turn or what some people term a knee cock or negative move and then we go to toe touch (some term it a positive move)and land on the inside edge of the lead foot on a flexed front knee and kind of think we are sitting a little bit on the front knee and we went linear....as we got to toe touch we moved our hands rearward a little or what some term separated or drawing the bow string back to gain momentum similar to throwing.
Some of the scientific purest would say the hands can not move because the shoulder upper arm and lower arm etc etc etc do or contribute to the hands moving rearward...we try to keep it simple so the kids understand it...separate or move the hands back a little at toe touch. You want a scientific explanation go to Set Pro.com.
You do not want to take the hands back so far as it would cause the shoulders to roll in which pulls your head away from the pitcher which causes a vision problem as one eye is further away than the other. You need a good two eyed look to track the ball properly.
Hope this helps...
When hitting we bend at the waist and then soften the knees to become balanced and we first load by doing an inward turn or what some people term a knee cock or negative move and then we go to toe touch (some term it a positive move)and land on the inside edge of the lead foot on a flexed front knee and kind of think we are sitting a little bit on the front knee and we went linear....as we got to toe touch we moved our hands rearward a little or what some term separated or drawing the bow string back to gain momentum similar to throwing.
Some of the scientific purest would say the hands can not move because the shoulder upper arm and lower arm etc etc etc do or contribute to the hands moving rearward...we try to keep it simple so the kids understand it...separate or move the hands back a little at toe touch. You want a scientific explanation go to Set Pro.com.
You do not want to take the hands back so far as it would cause the shoulders to roll in which pulls your head away from the pitcher which causes a vision problem as one eye is further away than the other. You need a good two eyed look to track the ball properly.
Hope this helps...
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^^^As always...Howard is 100% accurate with his post...lol.
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Not that this is news...But... dead on, Howard. My husband has been working with 9 to 12Us for four years and trying to get this exact method across to the girls. Most get it, some don't want to.... It is nice to read someone elses' explanation and hear it put in simple, understandable terms. He will appreciate it too.... If you teach this to your girls and work on it as a staff, then you can help every girl identify the problems they are having and help them correct it.
I also agree with the attitude component. If you think you can, then you can. That is what "streaks" are made of.
Also, I hear some coaches crank the BP machine to 65-70 mph and have the girls work from 30-25-20-15' away....does this really help? I am sure it is for quickening the reaction time, but it seems extreme. Just wondering.
I also agree with the attitude component. If you think you can, then you can. That is what "streaks" are made of.
Also, I hear some coaches crank the BP machine to 65-70 mph and have the girls work from 30-25-20-15' away....does this really help? I am sure it is for quickening the reaction time, but it seems extreme. Just wondering.
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We tell our students it is their job to call balls and strikes and the only thing we want the umpire to do is call safe or out...the hitter MUST determine what they can hit. We have put soft balls on Gatorade bottles and had them hit home runs just to show them they can do it so I am not going to tell them what to swing at however do not take a called third strike looking! Another test we do when I first start with a new student is to take a Schutt Travel tee and place it on the outside of my stride right tee and that puts the tee exactly 11 inches from the outside edge of the plate. I ask them to try and hit the ball off the tee and I draw a chalk line on the floor and tell them they must step in a direct line forward and they can not do it. I explain to them that by the end of the session they will be able to do it and they get that smile on their face after they hit the ball at the end of the day.
I do not think turning up the speed of the pitching machine does much to improve their timing in my opinion with that said I recommend the following...place the pitching machine at about 35 feet for 40 feet pitching and 38 feet for 43 feet pitching distances.
Adjust the machine so it is pitching at about belt level high. The hitter then moves rearward and sets up to hit beyond where the umpire stands and measure off from the plate. Set the speed of the pitching machine at about 45 MPH. The person feeding the machine holds a ball in their left hand and has the ball ready to feed into the chute or tube. Hold a ball in your right hand and do a pitchers arm circle....the hitter starts their load when the arm starts up and when the person feeding machine gets to the top of the arm circle the hitter MUST be at their toe touch position and the person feeding the machine then feeds the ball into the tube with the left hand. Doing it this way keeps the delivery more game like and smooth giving the hitter a sense of timing and rhythm. After each swing the hitter steps forward and swings again. Keep moving forward until the hitter can not get their hands above the plane of the pitch and then reverse your direction one step at a time. This makes the hitter adjust to each pitch as to height and speed just like a pitcher.
You can move away or in to adjust to outside pitches or inside pitches. Speed the machine up after you get use to doing the drill and keep adjusting the speed up so they get use to adjusting their timing...just throwing them in front of a machine that is turned up serves no useful purpose in my opinion. I do not use pitching machines for batting practice however we use them for timing and rhythm adjustments.
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Yikes! I'll bet the foul balls for strike three (followed by disgusted looks from your parents and players-- and smiles and "thank you's" from your opponent's coaches) outnumber the "unexpected hits" at least five to one. If you're flashing bunt signs to hitters with two strikes, you have control issues that must be addressed immediately. Please see a softball psychologist in your area tomorrow. You'll likely be asked to coach an entire game with your hands in your back pockets and your mouth shut. It might hurt at first, but you'll get used to it and you'll find that people will like you more. Heck, you might even find out that your players are pretty tough at the plate with two strikes. Later, you could even let them choose what flavor of ice cream they want to eat after the game. When you get home, you could let your spouse decide what you'll have for dinner. You could let your kids pick out their own clothes for the next day. The possibilities are endless once you realize that you don't have to have your finger on every button.
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Wow! Here we go!
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"tough at the plate with two strikes" Isn't that an oxymoron? Oh by the way, you can drag bunt foul all day long. I do agree though Truth, I think the law of probabilities are not in your favor with two strikes and a bunt is requested.
On the topic of seperating the hands. The team in the World Series (name escapes me, Ragin Cagin's possibly), I believe they were from Louisianna, batted with about 8 inches in between hands. I believe it was in defense of the rise ball pitcher they were playing against. Can't remember for sure. I think the thing that stuck out the most was the hay baling gloves that some of them were wearing in lieu of a traditional batting glove. If memory serves me, the entire team batted that way.
On the topic of seperating the hands. The team in the World Series (name escapes me, Ragin Cagin's possibly), I believe they were from Louisianna, batted with about 8 inches in between hands. I believe it was in defense of the rise ball pitcher they were playing against. Can't remember for sure. I think the thing that stuck out the most was the hay baling gloves that some of them were wearing in lieu of a traditional batting glove. If memory serves me, the entire team batted that way.
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Hitter, not sure if your last reply was directed to me or someone else. No disrespect intended on my end (I started with the thread above mine and only read up a few threads). At any rate, why did the Ragin Cagins bat with hands seperated so far apart? I think Michelle Smith or someone explained it, but I can't remember the theory behind it. They had their hands seperated extremely far apart. It obviously worked to some degree, as I think they got to the semi-finals in the World Series.
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Bad Medicine
I'm trying to get a picture of their swing for myself. Was their bottom hand at or near the knob of the bat? Did their hands remain separated throughout the swing or did the top hand slide towards the bottom hand during the swing? Ty Cobb hit with his hands separated but they were only separated by an inch or two, not eight inches apart. Ty Cobb felt he had more control over the bat with his hands separated and could "punch" the ball wherever he wished. It obviously worked well for him.
I'm trying to get a picture of their swing for myself. Was their bottom hand at or near the knob of the bat? Did their hands remain separated throughout the swing or did the top hand slide towards the bottom hand during the swing? Ty Cobb hit with his hands separated but they were only separated by an inch or two, not eight inches apart. Ty Cobb felt he had more control over the bat with his hands separated and could "punch" the ball wherever he wished. It obviously worked well for him.
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Len I was at the WCWS and had this conversation with several coaches in attendance...
Some had the bottom hand at the knob with at least a hand width of spacing separating the other hand from the top hand.....some choked up from the knob and created the same spacing only higher up on the bat.
The general consensus was bat control however on a drop ball it was not very effective however try it yourself to feel it. I've tried soft tossing from the side to some of our kids and they felt they were topping the ball and had to bring the back shoulder down further or tilt more to reach the lower pitches. It felt better hitting a rise ball or a pitch higher in the zone was the general opinion during the conversations with the other coaches. When I soft tossed the kids the ball higher in the zone it was easier to handle.
I made a bat with an offset handle...I took an old bat that was 29 inches and cut off the knob and then took another handle from another bat about 8 inches and cut it off and bolted it together. That puts some spacing between the hands and off centers the handles.
Of course you can not do this with just separating your hands you must cut the bat and off center the handles however I was just trying to get the back elbow to slot faster and get the kids to feel it.
SBFAMILY welded one up so the handles are welded and butted up against each other however I bolted mine so I could adjust it as we experimented with it. With the handles laying next to each seems to have a better feeling versus being wider or more separated and his looks better than mine. He had the nerve to bring it to my house with hockey tape on the handles so I put a new grip on it so his daughter would not have the sticky mess on her hands...but it was a nice weld job! Just ugly grips!
I think my off set is two inches...anyway the thing you feel is it brings the back elbow into the slot quickly with more force because the bottom hand is below the lead arm elbow and is not what some would term connected. It works great on kids who have issues with pushing the bat or the hands getting ahead all the time. You have to do a one hand release or it feels like it rolls over just after contact. Coming to the ball it feels great and they feel the back elbow slot harder. We normally do this on one knee so we isolate the legs out of it and just work the top half.
Look at the Oklahoman newspaper site and I think there is a picture and article about it as I remember reading it while we were there.
It may also be in the USA TODAY paper...I just do not remember.
Some had the bottom hand at the knob with at least a hand width of spacing separating the other hand from the top hand.....some choked up from the knob and created the same spacing only higher up on the bat.
The general consensus was bat control however on a drop ball it was not very effective however try it yourself to feel it. I've tried soft tossing from the side to some of our kids and they felt they were topping the ball and had to bring the back shoulder down further or tilt more to reach the lower pitches. It felt better hitting a rise ball or a pitch higher in the zone was the general opinion during the conversations with the other coaches. When I soft tossed the kids the ball higher in the zone it was easier to handle.
I made a bat with an offset handle...I took an old bat that was 29 inches and cut off the knob and then took another handle from another bat about 8 inches and cut it off and bolted it together. That puts some spacing between the hands and off centers the handles.
Of course you can not do this with just separating your hands you must cut the bat and off center the handles however I was just trying to get the back elbow to slot faster and get the kids to feel it.
SBFAMILY welded one up so the handles are welded and butted up against each other however I bolted mine so I could adjust it as we experimented with it. With the handles laying next to each seems to have a better feeling versus being wider or more separated and his looks better than mine. He had the nerve to bring it to my house with hockey tape on the handles so I put a new grip on it so his daughter would not have the sticky mess on her hands...but it was a nice weld job! Just ugly grips!
I think my off set is two inches...anyway the thing you feel is it brings the back elbow into the slot quickly with more force because the bottom hand is below the lead arm elbow and is not what some would term connected. It works great on kids who have issues with pushing the bat or the hands getting ahead all the time. You have to do a one hand release or it feels like it rolls over just after contact. Coming to the ball it feels great and they feel the back elbow slot harder. We normally do this on one knee so we isolate the legs out of it and just work the top half.
Look at the Oklahoman newspaper site and I think there is a picture and article about it as I remember reading it while we were there.
It may also be in the USA TODAY paper...I just do not remember.
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"...tough at the plate with two strikes" is not even close to being an oxymoron. "Light heavyweight" is a good example. "Ugly beauty queen" would be another. No. You can't "drag" bunt the ball foul with two strikes all day. If you "drag" bunt the ball foul with two strikes, you're out. If you "slap" with two strikes and hit it foul, you're not out. Bunting is bunting. Slapping is a form of hitting.
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Well, at least I spelled oxymoron correctly. "tough at the plate with two strikes" is closer to light heavyweight than "first pitch over the fence".
Agreed, referencing NFHS..2-8, 7-4-9, 8-2-10 & 9-3-4. A bunt is a bunt and drag bunt is defined lumped together in 2-8. I'll still hold firm that I can get buy with it all day long next year like we did this year.
Agreed, referencing NFHS..2-8, 7-4-9, 8-2-10 & 9-3-4. A bunt is a bunt and drag bunt is defined lumped together in 2-8. I'll still hold firm that I can get buy with it all day long next year like we did this year.
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watching someone do the same thing as you mentioned was helped by doing these things...
1. turning up the pitching machine and hitting from about 25 feet away in the cage
2. shortening up here swing to try to punch the ball through which turned into long flyballs in the outfield in the gaps
3. constant time in the cage, hitting 3-5 times a day 2-3 times a week.
1. turning up the pitching machine and hitting from about 25 feet away in the cage
2. shortening up here swing to try to punch the ball through which turned into long flyballs in the outfield in the gaps
3. constant time in the cage, hitting 3-5 times a day 2-3 times a week.
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I just tried to improve on your design! The tape job was temp. till you got to see if I did it right, but he won't let me live it down! I did the tennis racket from the pictures they took while visiting you.
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Something that I have noticed and it is related to a particular hitting instructors method of teaching...they do not teach the girls how to stride because they over stride...so they lean backwards and kind of pick up the lead foot and swing.
So I have started demonstrating to the hitters and the parents where the body must be in space and time as to balance when they stride in order to be able to pick up the lead foot. I have them show me how they load in front of a big mirror with their belly button facing the mirror. What I usually see is they are leaning backwards a little on the load and then have to lean back even more as they attempt to stride and pick up their lead foot and their stride is very little if any.
To demonstrate this to them to get a feel for the balance I put their lead shoulder and hip up against the wall and their feet are close together. I ask them to simply raise their right foot and they can not do it and they feel it. You must be able to shift your weight to the other leg or off center to pick the leg up other wise you loose your balance. You see this a lot especially when they are throwing, many lean or tilt backwards when trying to throw.
Now I bring them back to the mirror and spread their legs about 1.5 the width of the shoulders width, then bend at the waist and soften the knees. I ask them to pick up their lead foot leg and as they lean backwards they begin to move their foot a little HOWEVER to pick it up all the way they MUST lean back even further so their head is way off center and past their back leg and then they can pick up their foot completely off the ground. I ask them if that felt awkward and you get that look as any parent could verify boy was that a stupid question to ask!
Now I get behind them while they are facing the mirror with their belly button facing the mirror...I tell them to think their legs are in the shape of a pyramid and that the back side of the pyramid does not move only the front side and we do a simple knee cock move by tilting the foot to the inside edge of the foot and the knee going under our body a little. The weight is them shifted to the inside of the back leg and as we pick up our lead foot our weight shifts forward and we stride. We point out our head never moved backwards and we were under control of our movement. I will keep my hand on their back hip and ask them to do it a few more times to see if they are feeling it move versus seeing it move. Then I will put two fingers on the outside of the back leg by the knee cap and ask them to load again and then to go to toe touch...I do not move my fingers as I am using them as a point of reference as to where their leg was and after they stride to toe touch they see where my fingers are and that their weight went linear or forward to the pitchers position.
Then we work on increasing the distance they stride away from my finger position on the side of their knee by increasing the load by how much they turn the knee inward or how far they turn on the inside edge of the lead foot. When they think slow to load and soft to step on a bent or flexed knee and think they are kind of sitting on that front knee the distance from my finger increases more and they can feel it in their hips.
I see this as a big reason for being late to the ball because of the variation of time it takes when they are leaning backwards in an attempt to pick up the lead foot and get it back down again.
As we progress I have them stand with their lead shoulder pointing towards the mirror and I stand out to the side of them and behind them and simulate the movements of the pitchers motion so they can see me in the mirror. As my ball hand starts up I encourage them to start their load and then I pause when the ball is in the K position or directly over my head and they MUST be at toe touch and then we start over and I do not stop and they swing with they see the ball at my hip or the pitchers window of release.
Make sure you are behind the hitter far enough so they can not hit you with the bat especially if they are top hand release hitters!
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Wow Hitter, that really sounds great, I'm going to have to try that. My dd is in the same boat, way behind and I think its effecting her confidence. Does any-one know of a good hitting oach in NE part of the state? Trumbull County. Good luck flashes 10 and all others.
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We demonstrated this at the clinic with the parents and it was funny to see them struggle with what was a simple request...lift your left leg and unless you can shift your weight it can not be accomplished.
The other question many seemed to have was laying the bat down and slightly backwards as the coaches they played for thought it would make their bat quicker. I wish the coaches would have been there and it would really had been fun to see them defend their beliefs as to why they do what they do.
The other question many seemed to have was laying the bat down and slightly backwards as the coaches they played for thought it would make their bat quicker. I wish the coaches would have been there and it would really had been fun to see them defend their beliefs as to why they do what they do.
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