DD's team played in the Central Ohio Ice Fall Chiller over the weekend over the weekend in the 10U division. Had a particular situation happen during the last game. Opposing team had a runner on 3rd and girl batting takes ball 4 and takes off towards 1st base. Catcher throws ball back to pitcher and 3rd base coach starts yelling loudly GO..., BACK...,GO in order to make sure the pitcher looks over at 3rd so the batter can continue on to 2nd base without a throw. All the while, the runner on 3rd base is standing 2 steps off the base just looking at the pitcher. Our pitcher is not motioning that she is going to throw the ball, she just looks over wondering why the coach is saying this. Should the runner on 3rd been called out for not returning to 3rd base or trying for home?
Lookback rule question
- Thread starter Jdwkaw
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LADY_KNIGHTS
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The look back rule is not in effect until batter/runner reaches first base. At this point if the pitcher makes no motion or intent to make a play toward 2nd or runner at third, then runner at third, if off the base should be called out while the runner going to second has every right to do so if they never stopped at first base.
frenchy101010
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The other side of the coin:
The coach was yelling Go..., Back..., Go... because of the past balls, not to distract the pitcher or any other players. Because of the past balls, our runners (8u and 9u) need a little help committing to home. 9 of our 11 girls played coach pitch this summer and could not steal home! There was NOT a situation where the pitcher had the ball and the coach then yelled GO! I have video and I will load it up if you want to see?
Maybe if your pitcher would have caught the ball and looked at the runner going to first we wouldn't have run them to 2nd base every time on a walk with a runner on 3rd base!
The coach was yelling Go..., Back..., Go... because of the past balls, not to distract the pitcher or any other players. Because of the past balls, our runners (8u and 9u) need a little help committing to home. 9 of our 11 girls played coach pitch this summer and could not steal home! There was NOT a situation where the pitcher had the ball and the coach then yelled GO! I have video and I will load it up if you want to see?
Maybe if your pitcher would have caught the ball and looked at the runner going to first we wouldn't have run them to 2nd base every time on a walk with a runner on 3rd base!
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I don't quite understand? Why would the coach be yelling to Go, Back, Go? 1st place - he should signal to 1B coach & he should instruct girl. Yet, why yelling to go back if he is wanting her to run to 2b? If the Pitcher is not catching the ball, he should have the runner on 3B going home.
I'd love to see the video uploaded.........
But if Pitcher was holding the ball before the runner made it to 2B & the runner on 3B was just standing off base looking - Then she should have been out!
Coaches usually avoid the word "go" because with a helmet on it sounds like "no". If ASA rules then the batter runner once rounding first can stop once and immediately must advance to 2nd or go back to first. The runner on third can do what she wants until the batter runner touches first base and then also must go back to third or advance to home.
BretMan2
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The coach's motives would be pure speculation. How do you know for certain that he did this "to make sure the pitcher looks over at third"? Regardless, this part of the story has zero bearing on the call. Coaches can yell whatever they want at their own players. And fielders still need to recognize the situation and make the play that their coaches want them to make.
Yes, if the look back rule was in effect and the runner from third was just standing in one spot, off the base, without advancing or retreating, then she should be called out.
It sounds like maybe the defensive team had good reason to question this. Did their coach bother to ask the umpires for an explanation? If so, what did they tell him?
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Yea, let's see the video!
Lp softball
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http://www.asasoftball.com/umpires/clarifications_2013_July.asp
This link might help to have a better understanding on this. Its the umpires decision weather the runner is working back to 3rd base or advancing home and must allow the runner time to do so. Therefore if the pitcher has the ball and looks to the runner at 3rd, the runner must be allowed the time to work back to the base. She is NOT automatically called out just because shes off the base at the time the pitcher fields the ball.
These are a few important parts I seen in this rule that applies to this situation.
{Both the defense and the offense deserve the right to finish their responsibilities on each play. Runners must have the opportunity to read the play, see that the play is over, and that the pitcher is in control and possession of ball in the circle then decide which direction they will go, back to the base they left or advance to the next base. These three thought processes cannot be defined except by umpire judgment.}
{Just because a pitcher has fielded the ball in the circle the play must be allowed to continue. Once the umpire has judged the play has ceased the pitcher now goes from a defensive player to a pitcher in the circle with control and possession of the ball.}
Hope this helps.
This link might help to have a better understanding on this. Its the umpires decision weather the runner is working back to 3rd base or advancing home and must allow the runner time to do so. Therefore if the pitcher has the ball and looks to the runner at 3rd, the runner must be allowed the time to work back to the base. She is NOT automatically called out just because shes off the base at the time the pitcher fields the ball.
These are a few important parts I seen in this rule that applies to this situation.
{Both the defense and the offense deserve the right to finish their responsibilities on each play. Runners must have the opportunity to read the play, see that the play is over, and that the pitcher is in control and possession of ball in the circle then decide which direction they will go, back to the base they left or advance to the next base. These three thought processes cannot be defined except by umpire judgment.}
{Just because a pitcher has fielded the ball in the circle the play must be allowed to continue. Once the umpire has judged the play has ceased the pitcher now goes from a defensive player to a pitcher in the circle with control and possession of the ball.}
Hope this helps.
BretMan2
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The play clarification from the ASA website involves a pitcher fielding a batted ball in the circle. This is different than when the is simply taking the throw back from the catcher.
When the pitcher is fielding a batted ball, umpires are instructed to give the runner time to recognize the situation and let that play resume before invoking the look back rule. On a throw back from the pitcher, the runner is still needs to "immediately" go forward or back.
Lp softball
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The umpire would still have to allow the time to get back to the base correct? Because some 8 year olds don't understand what 3 or 4 steps off the base means and they end up half way down the baseline.
In this case it was ball 4 so the runner at 3rd can stay off the base until the batter hits first base because its a live play, then she would have to return to 3rd or advance home with an
allowed time to do so.
In this case it was ball 4 so the runner at 3rd can stay off the base until the batter hits first base because its a live play, then she would have to return to 3rd or advance home with an
allowed time to do so.
daboss
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Bretman would you please share any rule that pertains to a coach intentionally trying to deceive the other team or distract them to gain an advantage? Hard to say what the motive would have been in this scenerio. It simply could have been an overzealous base coach freaking out due to the ball having been returned to the circle.
Different scenerio I observed was a situation during a high school game where a coach yelled out while the opposing pitcher was in her motion and the home plate ump called time and awarded the batter a ball and warned the coach if he did it again he'd be ejected.
Different scenerio I observed was a situation during a high school game where a coach yelled out while the opposing pitcher was in her motion and the home plate ump called time and awarded the batter a ball and warned the coach if he did it again he'd be ejected.
BretMan2
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There is a specific rule that applies to distracting the pitcher. Any words or actions that the umpire judges is an intent to create an illegal pitch may be penalized with ejection. There's no ball awarded to the batter though.
A base coach could be guilty of verbal interference with the defense, but I don't see that applying to the play in question. For instance: High pop up near third base. Base coach screams, "I got it!", so the fielder pulls off. The difference is that the coach is yelling something at the other team's player. He can yell whatever he wants if it's directed at his own players.
frenchy101010
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He was yelling Go Back Go, first yelling at the runner to GO to home, then we she hesitated, Back, then Go again cause the catcher hesitated getting the ball back to the pitcher.
I will attach a link to video as soon as it is loaded up to youtube.
I will attach a link to video as soon as it is loaded up to youtube.
The umpire doesn't have to allow time to get to a base because it is irrelevant to the rule. Once LBR goes into effect, runners can't stand still off a base. If they're moving when LBR goes into effect, they can only stop once while it is in effect.
Lp softball
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But if its on a 4th ball call and thiers a runner at 3rd wouldn't the LBR not go into effect until the batter hits 1st base? Because at that point the pitcher would be considered a defensive player because its a live ball since the walked batter is allowed to continue to 2nd base? Then if the pitcher makes the play at 2nd base it would allow the runner on 3rd to advance home.
I don't agree with your portrayal of the rule. Simply put, LBR cannot go into effect while there is a batter-runner - have to wait until the B-R is out or reaches 1B, whichever occurs first. By definitions, the B-R becomes a runner when they reach 1B.
LBR is off once the pitcher attempts a play (or fakes one that causes the runner to react), so the runner(s) are not bound by LBR until it's on again.
The portion of your previous post I disliked was "The umpire would still have to allow the time to get back to the base correct?" Perhaps you can clarify what you meant.
Lp softball
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What I meant by that was if my base runner at 3rd leads off to far down the base line and the catcher throws back to the pitcher and the pitcher looks her back. She is not called out automaticly, she would be allowed to run back to 3rd. Some post above make it sound that if she's off the base when the pitcher LBR then she would be called out right away.
The pitcher doesn't need to look her back - the pitcher just needs to have possession of the ball in the circle without making any motions that could be interpreted as attempting a play. All runners are subject to LBR regardless of where the pitcher is looking.
Okay, I see one of the posts said the runner could be called out without specifying that the runner wasn't moving one direction or the other. A couple others correctly said she could be called out right away if she was "just standing off base looking" and "just standing in one spot, off the base, without advancing or retreating."
She can go back to 3B as long as she complies with LBR when it goes into effect:
1. If she is advancing or retreating at the time, she is allowed to stop once and then start moving again without hesitating.
2. If she is not advancing/retreating at the time, she needs to "immediately" start moving one direction or the other.
