Opinions please: When it is the TD responsibility to cancel a tourney if there are not enough teams?

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We are in a tournament in a few weeks and I need to know what is proper protocol on how to handle getting out of a tournament that appears to be falling short of teams. Is it normal to get all of your money back if you ask to get out of it to get into another tourney?
Thanks in advance.

 

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It has been my impression from this forum that TDs allow full refund withdrawals from teams who challenge the tourney field as having an insufficient number of teams (and sometimes the TD just cancels the tourney based on insufficient number of teams and refunds all entry fees), but we've truthfully never been in that situation. Keep us posted as to what happens in your case. (I'm not interested in names, just in how the process worked and whether the tourney was canceled).

It is of course probable that the TD has already incurred expenses for the tournament (especially if there was a deposit put down on fields) and will seek to keep some money from entry fees to help with those expenses. At that point, it becomes a mixed question of fact as to the parties' understanding (was the tourney advertised as a round robin, or with a relatively small field of teams such as six, etc. etc) and Ohio law on whether the small field of entrants constitutes a "failure of consideration". There are other issues such as unjust enrichment and reliance. I don't do much Ohio contract law and I couldn't predict how this would probably come out. Hopefully the parties would reach an agreement on what is fair, without any legal wrangling.

 

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A lot of tourneys have a date where no refunds are given. Might get lucky and make the cutoff ?

 

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I heard of this happening once last year to a coach I know. 2 weeks before the tournament, the TD contacted all the teams and told them he didn't have enough teams to make it worth everyone's time so he sent back full refunds with a list of other tournaments in the area that were still open to teams. I thought that was pretty cool of him and everyone seemed to be happy....problem solved.

 

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I wish that had happened on a tourney coming up for us. It is us and 3 other teams.

 

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The answer to the main question - in my opinion - is four weeks. If a tourney is not filled four weeks from the Friday date, it is not going to fill. The director should call it off (and maybe that is just an age group, not the entire tourney) and issue a FULL refund.

I understand that the director may have sunk some money into the plan already. That is called "business risk." If they can't deliver any product then a full refund is warranted.

In terms of what the product is - that is a better question? Does four teams make a tourney? Is it a college showcase when only one coach shows up to watch? Or three, or five? What is the number?

I think that coaches have to ask questions such as "how many teams are you expecting in the 16U division" before they send in their checks, and ask the hard questions about cut-off dates and refunds beforehand. In some cases, 6-8 teams is perfectly acceptable. In other cases, you are expecting a field of 20+ teams.

 

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I want to report that the TD for the tourney in question offered a full refund and had no problems with it. Only 3 teams had entered and I felt bad pulling out of his tourney, but we had to make sure we had one that weekend.

 

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I agree with sideliner on this ... a tournament with a lack of teams should be cancelled well in advance (a month?) to give teams an opportunity to still get in other tourneys, and, without any question, a full refund should be given. If you ordered something from a store or catalog and they couldn't produce the good or service you ordered, would you not expect a full refund?? No way they keep any of my or my organization's/families' money ...

 

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This is such a touchy subject and I agree with sideliner, 4 weeks would be a minimum in my mind. Everyone's contribution to this thread is great but I have to admit this is an area where there are no set rules to follow----none I'm aware of. With the summer so short and with Mother Nature always ready to screw up a welcomed weekend, missing a weekend because a TD waits till it is too late for anyone to enter another contest can be devastating to the kids' experience at the travel ball level. Most travel teams do not participate year-round. The summer weeks may be all they get.

The question about how many teams does it take to constitute a tourney is another point of interest. Each tournament director will have their own spread sheet as to how many teams are needed to break even for the event just as they have a schedule that tells them the maximum number of games they can play in a given weekend, a deciding factor for the maximum number of teams that can participate. Everyone will be different when considering the factors.

I've seen tourneys with only 3 teams in an age group play. There are normally multiple age groups so the number of overall teams playing can help offset the expense of diamond rental. Three doesn't sound like much of a tourney but depending on the quality of the participants it could be a barnburner compared to a 10-team Rec line up. The choice is yours and with the sport growing in popularity, we're seeing more and more tournaments being offered for Rec or League level teams to participate. While time will be needed to sort things out, it'll be up to the teams to do their homework and select a schedule that best suits your needs. I suggest you enter early, ask questions when entering about refund policies, pay in full, and get a confirmation you have a slot in the tournament. Anyone refusing to confirm entry when money has been sent is definitely throwing a red flag in the air. You should have a confirmation within 2 weeks of mailing your money.