Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitchers v. Fielders and Playing Time

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""""however travel ball playing your best 9"""
Then you should only have 9 players.

This is exactly right. If you only play your best nine in each and every bracket game, you will lose the 10th and 11th players. Especially at the 11U through 14U ages, we concentrate on developing the players and you don't necessarily do that by only giving them pool play innings. We believe that the most important goal is to produce the best possible 16U team, which is when recruiting reaches its peak. We've been questioned about this strategy because we have had our fair share of losses, but at least for Ted and me there are enough trophies cluttering up the garage and it is important for the team as a whole to get better so that during 16U play we can best market all our girls who wish to play in college. I would agree that at the end of 14U play you should make more of a move to playing the best 9 in bracket play, but again I think you are being naive if you think you can keep your team intact without playing all the girls for at least a portion of bracket play games. And as Klump and others have pointed out, sometimes it makes strategic sense to give a few of your "best nine" a rest. Finally, to reiterate the point made by many others, some of your best athletes play the most aggressive games, which can translate into injuries. If you haven't tried to develop more than one player at each and every position, the level of team play could fall off markedly when one or two players go down with injuries for a week or two.

 

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Now my middle DD is 10U and when I go to tournaments and watch the 10's play, I see on most teams the same kids game in game out sitting on the bench. Something has gone wrong IMO, to me putting winning above developing players at that age is backwards thinking. Everybody plays to win, that goes without saying, but play to win with your team, all 11 or 12. Be a coach, coach these kids up, 1 through 12.


I couldnt agree with this more Uber Jones! Where were you when my dd was playing 12U? lol

 

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I wish my two older daughters had played for cgs--truly one of the most simple and at the same time well-thought paragraphs I have ever seen on this site. Well said, Sir or Madam. Around here, the coaches seem to identify the "best" players by who thier kids invite to sleep-overs, and give no thought to player development-have only had one pitcher all year in 12U rec....She has already stated she is droppong softbal for cheerleading in high School. Also depth is important for the better players because they tend to play harder-oldest DD has had a concussion, ankle, and hand injury this year on the basepaths(and yes, she knows how to slide...lol) The younger age groups need to approach the game from a chess perspective, not checkers; but our society thinks the same way now, so should softball be any different...

 

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The player is selected by the team and the team is selected by the player, if the player and parents feel that the coaches are not making the right decisions you have to chalk it up as a mistake.
From there you tell your daughter to work her tail off, play her best, support the team and start looking at the tryout map
Hopefully you find a team and everthing works out.

 

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LCTiger:

Thanks for your kind words. Teddy and I were talking during our multiple drives to Stingrays (a shared passion for softball does much to increase spousal communications ) and he also appropriately noted that sometimes as coaches we cannot be completely sure who the "best nine" are. That young girl who since 11U has been so accurate in her infield throws may, as she gets older, simply not have sufficient speed to the ball, range in getting to the ball, speed in ball transfer, or throwing speed to get outs against the runners, who have picked up a lot of speed as they get older. Even if she has had a pretty secure starting position in her earlier years, we as coaches have to consider whether a more aggressive player is now a better player for bracket play, notwithstanding more errors. (If the error doesn't result in extra bases, that's not a worse result than the failure to get the out because of defensive slowness). We really can't find that out until we see the more aggressive player perform in tough bracket play. Take any position on defense and you could see similar arguments about how things change over time. And then you have to mix in how the girls are progressing offensively.

Oh, and if there are things you as a coach are privy to involving motivation and extraneous circumstances that cannot and should not be shared with team fans, that may be an additional reason why the coaches' concepts of "the best nine" differ from the those of the team fans.

 

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Mom's the coach - Daughter plays each inning same position - same mistakes over and over, mom's best friends daughter plays each inning same position - same mistakes over and over - doesn't matter if its mommy ball or daddy ball - Find the right team with the right philosphy for the development of your daughter.

 

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It would make sense to, always play the best players. More often than not though I see, teams leaving the pitchers on the field. Just to keep them happy.

What makes that even more frustrating is, that some organizations even have a lower fee for the pitchers. Makes it a very hard pill to swallow. When you shell out between $400 to $600 dollars. Someone who pays considerable less is complaining about their kids playing time. If it is a pitcher the coach will generally give in.

 

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It would make sense to, always play the best players. More often than not though I see, teams leaving the pitchers on the field. Just to keep them happy.

What makes that even more frustrating is, that some organizations even have a lower fee for the pitchers. Makes it a very hard pill to swallow. When you shell out between $400 to $600 dollars. Someone who pays considerable less is complaining about their kids playing time. If it is a pitcher the coach will generally give in.

Pitchers parents are sometimes shelling out $180 or more a month in pitching lessons, that is why they offer the break. Plus, all the extra time they need to put in, just to be decent (not great, great requires even more time), if the organization offers that to the pitchers good for them.

I guarantee I have more than you do wrapped up in travel ball just because my daughter is a pitcher.

 

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It is nice to give the pitchers a break on fees, but the pitcher can't play the field alone. It's a pretty long game with just a pitcher in the middle. I believe you find a way to keep your cost down for everyone. Provide a place for your pitcher to pitch during the week in the winter for less than what they would need to rent and that gives them a benefit. I would spread the savings across the team through practice facilities in the winter, etc. You need 9 kids on the field. In talking with several organizations, they offer the lower cost to attract better pitchers....not because they have already paid for lessons, etc. On the field...coach all the players. There play time is reflected in performance. At the older ages, bats often times become the deciding factor. If you can hit, bunt, run, score, you win the game and you are in the lineup. I have seen alot of good pitcher's lose games 1-0....a solo home run, or a slapper bunt, passed ball, sac bunt, score. Work all the kids. Kids who are playing the game at a higher level should put more time into their swings, just like pitchers put time into their pitching. There really shouldn't be much difference between the time your hitters put into their hitting and the time pitchers put into their pitching. I think they call that combination gold teams.

 

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It is nice to give the pitchers a break on fees, but the pitcher can't play the field alone. It's a pretty long game with just a pitcher in the middle. I believe you find a way to keep your cost down for everyone. Provide a place for your pitcher to pitch during the week in the winter for less than what they would need to rent and that gives them a benefit. I would spread the savings across the team through practice facilities in the winter, etc. You need 9 kids on the field. In talking with several organizations, they offer the lower cost to attract better pitchers....not because they have already paid for lessons, etc. On the field...coach all the players. There play time is reflected in performance. At the older ages, bats often times become the deciding factor. If you can hit, bunt, run, score, you win the game and you are in the lineup. I have seen alot of good pitcher's lose games 1-0....a solo home run, or a slapper bunt, passed ball, sac bunt, score. Work all the kids. Kids who are playing the game at a higher level should put more time into their swings, just like pitchers put time into their pitching. There really shouldn't be much difference between the time your hitters put into their hitting and the time pitchers put into their pitching. I think they call that combination gold teams.

I agree with this...the best hitters should be putting as much time into their hitting as the pitchers put into their pitching.
But then, the pitchers hit too...which means they still put in more time than everyone else..
For my college team. The catchers (our #1 especially) put in the most time. If I have to go in and pitch extra, the catcher is there too. Also, during practice, our catchers often miss hitting drills/live hitting because they're catching our workouts. So, they have to come in extra for more hitting. They also have leg workouts they don't have time for in practice so they have to do extra.
#1 reason I'm very happy I'm a pitcher and not a catcher anymore lol. The pitchers work hard, but man...Our catchers work their butts off.
That being said, I think for the most part coaches should try to get everyone equal playing time. They all pay the team fees/hotel/gas money/etc.. Tryouts are for a reason. Especially for teams that have a hundred+ girls showing up to tryouts, there shouldn't be a single girl on the team that would ever jeopardize a game because of their skill level being lower than the others. I do know it's harder for some teams to attract many good players, though..for them it's kind of a catch 22..losing won't attract better players..

 

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Gameface....absolutely right about the catchers! I was going to mention it earlier, but my post was already getting too long. Catcher's don't get enough credit and it is a "grueling" position. I agree too about trying to get equal playing time. Unfotunately, sometimes kids play themselves "off" or "on" the field and that is when it gets hard.

 

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Should pitchers be allowed to take away a position from a fielder?

In my case, should the #2 pitcher get to start at 3rd sometimes when she's not pitching? My daughter is a great 3rd basemen, but #2 pitcher's parents get really angry when there dauther only plays in 1/2 of the games.

#2 pitcher is a decent fielder too.

The best nine should always play no matter what position. This is a tournament team not a rec team All going in to the team should know where their spots are. A good coach will not bow to parental pressure, however with that said a good coach knows the teams he can easily beat and may decide to play weaker plays over his starters for that game.

 

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The best nine should always play no matter what position. ...

This is way too simplistic. For example, a good MANAGER knows they need a #2 ready at every position in case of injury or illness. You can't do that without giving the #2 gametime at each position.

A good coach will not bow to parental pressure

True, but a smart manager knows better than to risk losing one of their top pitchers by not giving them some gametime when they're not pitching. Pitchers at the younger age groups (10-14u) should not settle for only getting gametime when they're pitching.

One of the great things about playing year-round in SoCal is teams are able to develop depth in friendlies and then tighten it up in tournaments.

 

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The best nine should always play no matter what position. This is a tournament team not a rec team All going in to the team should know where their spots are. A good coach will not bow to parental pressure, however with that said a good coach knows the teams he can easily beat and may decide to play weaker plays over his starters for that game.

Try playing tournaments with a roster of 9! You should be able to work all your players into most games, not just against the teams you can "easily beat". Do a better job of selection for your team and don't collect money from a player just to fill the roster!