Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching - Location VS Speed

[Fairman]

Sure it would be nice to have a pitcher that can throw 70MPH with 25RPS, great movement and fantastic change up.

The only way she will get there is by attempting to throw each pitch harder than she did the last one. This attitude will drive a coach crazy because she won't hit her spots and she'll throw some into the backstop. If the coach/parent preaches hitting spots to eliminate walks most kids will tuck it in and some will even be successful, for a time. She will not progress as a pitcher and eventually she will get rocked. If you want your dd to pitch in college then do NOT preach location. If you want to win a couple 14U games then by all means go ahead.

 

[GameOver]

My daughter went to a pitching camp at UK in January of 2014. Coach Lawson pulled the pitchers (and catchers) together for a little pre-camp talk. She said that to be successful at pitching you have to have 2 of 3 things. One was great speed. Two was outstanding control. Three was phenomenal movement (spin). If you can have 2 of these 3 item you can be a successful pitcher. It was kind of cool to hear. She "sort of" referenced (64 - 68) as great speed in the SEC. it was definitely a neat perspective on pitching.

 

[coachjwb]

While this is an age-old question and a lot of us whose DD's don't throw as hard like to rationalize about location/control, there is no doubt that speed is extremely important. I think it's kind of like size in basketball ... there are some great bball players who are less than 5'10", but there are very few exceptions to players under this size playing in the NBA or D1 NCAA. On the other hand, if you're over 6'10", coaches can work with you. Ron, I am interested in your thoughts around mechanics. I don't think there is only one kind of mechanics for any particular skills, but there are certainly some basic essentials, though I am probably not the best person to describe them. I think a lot has to do with the fluidity of movement. As for the speed, I am sure 58 is a bare minimum for D1, but that's not to say a pitcher can't be very successful at other levels if she throws less than that.

 

[GeneralsDad]

How many pitchers does Coach Lawson have on her roster that throw 52-54?

 

[CarMad]

I had the pleasure of watching Emma Johnson pitch an 11 inning 2-1 win over EMU this weekend. She had 15 K, 6 BB and gave up 4 hits. I don't know what her top speed is but she was just putting it by some of the hitters. Looked like she got stronger as the game got longer. Good Stuff.

 

[Strohbro]

Had Tim Walton in a few years back for a clinic. My DD asked him what he looks for in a pitcher. His response in order:
1) Location
2) Movement
3) Speed

He said just because you can throw hard does not mean you can hit your spot consistently. Being able to hit your spots will get a good pitcher outs.

 

[softballoldtimer]

If you want to play DI college you better have the velocity, they are not recruiting many pitchers at 55 with spin, they want the hard stuff, they'll teach you the movement later.

 

[GeneralsDad]

How many pitchers on Florida's roster are throwing 52-55 with great location and great movement?

 

[LADY lOOKOUTS]

I vote B.... with a stellar defense, of course!!!!

 

[FastBat]

What other types of pitchers are on the team? Hopefully, no team has just one pitcher, I would create a "staff" that is diverse: one flame thrower, one with good movement, and one that can throw strikes. All complement each other's strengths and weaknesses. There are very few teams that can go the distance with just one pitcher, perhaps in HS, but most travel ball teams have many games in a short period of time and that wouldn't be optimal for just one pitcher.

Below is a absolute great example of a pitcher with good movement, it takes many years of experience to understand this concept. Many coaches say 12U and below the change is crippling. What I notice with a change up pitch; besides the speed difference, the nature of a change is to have vertical movement (up, down, or both) and even better if there is horizontal movement (in or out) as well. I realize the best change should look like a fastball, but most of the time in 12u and below; a change up, looks like a change up, and it is still dominating.

...the girl who can hit her spots with above average speed. Movement can be tricky though because you can have a lot of movement, but if it's not late movement, or if the movement is all east-west and not north-south, it is less effective and tends to get hit harder... ESPECIALLY if the pitcher is on the slower side. Give me a pitcher who has above average speed and can hit her spots paired with an off-speed pitch that comes in a good 10 mph slower and we are going to win some games. Add a strong 3rd pitch with late break and good north-south movement and we will win A LOT!

 

[Fairman]

Softballoletimer:

There is no way that a college coach can teach a full battery of breaking pitches to a freshman no matter how hard she throws. Most of the 60+ TB pitchers that I know where rocked in college. They never began to develop any breaking stuff because they were able to overwhelm the typical TB or HS player with speed. A few of those throwers made the transition to pitchers and were productive for their schools.

You are probably right that Florida doesn't look at anyone under 60 but I bet Ohio State (or Robert Morris, or St Francis or Penn State...)does, especially if that is coupled with a 25+RPS, an impressive W/L record, a tiny ERA, a great attitude and most importantly-stellar academics.

 

[wow]

I must say this is one of the more polarizing posts. Either you're in the speed cures, location and movement, or both camp. I wonder how many of these posters who feel speed is the dominating factor are past baseball players? I understand there are a lot of similarities between baseball and fastpitch, but there are just as many differences. The pitching game is truly different in the ability to move pitches all around. Remember Jenny Finch? A few years back she pitched to baseball players and the pitches were crazy. She did not beat anyone with speed rather her spots were awesome. The point is there is no "one" thing to have, rather a culmination of everything. When speed, movement, and location come together that is when it matters. As far as the original question.. What is most important? Well that depends on what type of batter you are throwing to!...

 

[alborules]

What other types of pitchers are on the team? Hopefully, no team has just one pitcher, I would create a "staff" that is diverse: one flame thrower, one with good movement, and one that can throw strikes. All complement each other's strengths and weaknesses. There are very few teams that can go the distance with just one pitcher, perhaps in HS, but most travel ball teams have many games in a short period of time and that wouldn't be optimal for just one pitcher.


Exactly. No matter what a coach prefers, would they really have 2-3 of the same type of pitchers? Wouldn't it make more sense to have 1 of each? Which pitcher do you throw against power hitting teams? Which pitcher do you throw against the team with 4 fast slappers? If you only have one type of pitcher you are stuck.

 

[coachjwb]

My guess is that most college teams just get the best pitchers they can get, and don't have the luxury to pick and choose a diverse staff. With the exception of balancing the mix of lefties and righties, and starters vs. relievers, I think MLB does the same.

 

[tjsmize3]

My guess is that most college teams just get the best pitchers they can get, and don't have the luxury to pick and choose a diverse staff. With the exception of balancing the mix of lefties and righties, and starters vs. relievers, I think MLB does the same.

Agreed! This thread somehow got a little off track... OP simply wanted to know which was better at 14u... A or B. It was kind of an academic question. In reality any coach at any level is going to put you in the circle so long as you can keep them off the bases. I don't think it really matters that much how you do it.... just that you do it! However, given the amount of people walking around with radar guns at games, I would say speed must at least be a somewhat better than average predictor of pitching success.

 

[SpazMan]

My DD is a spin pitcher with just above avg speed for 14U, low to middle 50's. Shes had the oppirtunity to pitch some varsity as a Freshman and has been very successful with that combination. Her spin is better than her speed at 20 plus RPS. That combination gives the ball great late break and is VERY effective. So if your kid isnt a flame thrower no worries, you can still make batters look silly with great spin making that ball move like magic. The more of both you develop will make you a great asset to your team. It takes a LOT of work to develop. Thousands of reps. Put in the time and you will be rewarded. SPIN that ball!

 

[dannyboy]

I think the reality is that walks will kill you. A pitcher needs a "go to" pitch that gets a strikeout, pop up, or groundball. I think, that pitch, can be a variety of pitches. If you're fast, then a change up. If you are a spinner, then a drop, for a groundball. My favorite baseball player is Greg Maddux. He was simply smarter than the hitters, and kept them off balance and guessing.

 

[tankerlab]

"Gobug" I Was told exactly same thing by D-1 pitching coach! Speed drawls their attention, but Mechanics had to be good. She said she did not have time to teach mechanics. This discussion was the result of DD being seen as 8th grader at their camp. Then being seen the next two years... She said her mechanics had improved to the point she was pleased with them.
DD has since verbally committed to a different D-1 School but what that first coach said holds true to what the other coach's that recruited her said as well. Another thing I was told by the coach that offered her Athletic Scholarship was they look at the kids potential and where they think they will be in three years...
Two more years of High School ball and she is off to College playing at next level! Time flys!

 

[FastBat]

DD has since verbally committed to a different D-1 School but what that first coach said holds true to what the other coach's that recruited her said as well. Another thing I was told by the coach that offered her Athletic Scholarship was they look at the kids potential and where they think they will be in three years...Two more years of High School ball and she is off to College playing at next level! Time flys!

Wow! Congrats!

1-Speed. Won't even look at you twice if you throw under 58 and will only look at you at that speed if your movement/spin is exceptional. If not, 62+.
2-Mechanics
3-Movement
4-Control
5-Size. He said if you have size and at least decent mechanics he can teach you the rest.

As my dd ages, I'm beginning to think more about this list. When she was younger, I constantly worried about her speed. I would never let her throw with poor mechanics, which was a speed killer, but now I am thankful because I did that. She has great mechanics, as an 11 years old, fifth grader, and has thrown in games from 43 feet to 14u players and can hold her own. (Especially, considering many players in her grade are still pitching from 35 feet with an 11 inch ball, to other fifth graders and younger.) My advice to pitchers is just keep throwing, practicing, and working hard. The more a pitcher practices, in moderation of course, speed vs. location is less of an issue. Obviously, judging for this list, a pitcher needs more than speed vs. location.

 

[coachtomv]

It is much easier to work on timing on fast meatball "throwers" than beat a good "pitcher" playing chess with the strike zone. Way more adjustments as a hitter when playing chess vs checkers, lol.

Obviously a "pitcher" with heat and movement is the complete package.