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These numbers aren't even close to being accurate. Where did you come up with this?
These numbers aren't even close to being accurate. Where did you come up with this?
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I must be wrong too.... I support these numbers for the most part. Will say that 8,9, and 10's starting out are more like 31-38 but other than that they are pretty good.
Since these numbers are so wrong, and I hate to pull your opinion or facts out, do tell what they should be. I will say that top 10 or even top 20 teams in OH are hitting these numbers on a very regular basis so maybe your context is different. Please let us know.
Many other teams do not and that's ok. He was referencing various ranges and they match my experience quite well and I haaaate fishing stories so I stand confident in my reply.
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48-52 are going to be the best 10Us
I would say 40-45 is avg for 10U for the better teams in what we've seen last 3yrs. At NSA A in Chattanooga, TN there were 3 girls clocked 50-51 in speed competition. most were 46-48, but was a small competition. IMO Fall-Spring of there 10yo year is wher they make their biggest jump. At 9yo most that I know were 35-42. Hope that gives you an idea. You will have many of the older group say that no 10U throws 50, but they do. There are not a ton, but some do. Most of your "middle of the pack" teams pitchers will be in 35-42 range in 10U from my experience.
I would say 40-45 is avg for 10U for the better teams in what we've seen last 3yrs. At NSA A in Chattanooga, TN there were 3 girls clocked 50-51 in speed competition. most were 46-48, but was a small competition. IMO Fall-Spring of there 10yo year is wher they make their biggest jump. At 9yo most that I know were 35-42. Hope that gives you an idea. You will have many of the older group say that no 10U throws 50, but they do. There are not a ton, but some do. Most of your "middle of the pack" teams pitchers will be in 35-42 range in 10U from my experience.
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Here ya go. Where are you getting this stuff, "the top 10 or 20 teams in OH are hitting these numbers"? Yeah maybe 18u with college pitchers or accomplished HS seniors on it. Like the link says 1% to 5% of teen age girls nation wide will hit a true 60 mph.....no matter what their parents, their coaches or the pitchers themselves say. So from the documented info out there and what I've witnessed over the years Lady Knight has it right. So I'm sure there's 14, 15, and 16 year olds out there throwing 60 but it's the exception not the norm.
http://www.pitchsoftball.com/Page8.html
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9u (40-44 mph good; 45+ elite)
10u (45-48 mph good; 48+ elite)
11u (46-48 mph good- remember they just move back 5 more ft and have a bigger ball; 48+ elite)
Not too concerned with the above numbers; kids at these ages are prone to growth spurts and changes in motivation and work ethic (for better or worse) .
12u (48-53 mph good; 53+ elite) = unrealistic
upper target of 50 would be on track for college
13u (52-55 mph good; 55+ elite) = unrealistic
anything over 50 would be on track for college
14u (55-58 mph good; 59+ elite) = unrealistic
Low to mid 50's would be on track for college
I'll add:
16u
Mid 50's = good college prospect
Upper 50's to anything over 60 = good DI college prospect
I've been told that hitting 60 (again as a top speed, not an average) as an 8th grader is what these girls should be striving for.
A 13-14 yr. old (8th grader) hitting 60 is an unrealistic expectation.
There are only a handful of kids nationwide at this age with the genetic potential to achieve that. While there's nothing wrong with setting REALISTIC goals, it's unfair to a kid to put pressure on her to achieve results that are surely unattainable. Regardless of training and work ethic, eventually Mother Nature has the ultimate say.
It would be more reasonable to just be sure she has excellent training and is using a quality, results oriented practice routine. If she has a great attitude and is TRULY dedicated, the results will show.
10u (45-48 mph good; 48+ elite)
11u (46-48 mph good- remember they just move back 5 more ft and have a bigger ball; 48+ elite)
Not too concerned with the above numbers; kids at these ages are prone to growth spurts and changes in motivation and work ethic (for better or worse) .
12u (48-53 mph good; 53+ elite) = unrealistic
upper target of 50 would be on track for college
13u (52-55 mph good; 55+ elite) = unrealistic
anything over 50 would be on track for college
14u (55-58 mph good; 59+ elite) = unrealistic
Low to mid 50's would be on track for college
I'll add:
16u
Mid 50's = good college prospect
Upper 50's to anything over 60 = good DI college prospect
I've been told that hitting 60 (again as a top speed, not an average) as an 8th grader is what these girls should be striving for.
A 13-14 yr. old (8th grader) hitting 60 is an unrealistic expectation.
There are only a handful of kids nationwide at this age with the genetic potential to achieve that. While there's nothing wrong with setting REALISTIC goals, it's unfair to a kid to put pressure on her to achieve results that are surely unattainable. Regardless of training and work ethic, eventually Mother Nature has the ultimate say.
It would be more reasonable to just be sure she has excellent training and is using a quality, results oriented practice routine. If she has a great attitude and is TRULY dedicated, the results will show.
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When my DD was 9 we had one of the most EFFECTIVE 10u pitchers I have seen. On a great day she could hit 35mph with her fastball. Most days she was right around 30mph but she could hit all her spots and had what we came to call the cartoon change up. We called it that because it would come floating in around 15-17 mph and looked like a slow motion cartoon. But darn did she get a lot of K's and ground balls!!!
The change of speeds with batters still working on developing a swing that could consitently hit a fast ball made this kid a very good 10u pitcher. I know for a fact several teams passed on this kid because she wasn't a flame thrower.
The change of speeds with batters still working on developing a swing that could consitently hit a fast ball made this kid a very good 10u pitcher. I know for a fact several teams passed on this kid because she wasn't a flame thrower.
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I am interested in knowing the best way to record the speed, what type or brand of radar gun? Do guns record the top speed as the pitch comes in or is it up to the person pulling the trigger to catch the ball at its fastest point? Maybe a dumb question, but I had to ask. Thanks
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Thanks Sammy....my dd started pitching her 2nd 12u season...so she was 13u, hit 46 to 49 consistently. first 14u season hit 54 consistently on the gun, probaly 50 to 52 in games. Worked hard during the off season between her 1st year of 14u and 2nd year....hit 58 on the gun, probably 54 to 56 in games (11-1 that year asa) HS freshman year 1.21 era. 1st year of 16u hit 58 consistently on the gun, probably 56 to 58 in games. Which tells me that she just got more confident in letting it loose in games. The 60 mph barrior is hard to hit. She's a jounior this year and goes from number 2 to the only pitcher we have. Gonna put her through a bigtime off season workout.....which she says she knows what she has to do so she's up for it. I told her she needs to be in the middle 60's by spring (unrealistic) but will motivate her.
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That's the spirit! Have you tried threats and beatings? :yahoo: Just kidding!! Sounds like your DD is right on track - nothing wrong with those numbers!
Speed measurement for pitching is not an exact science, and it doesn't need to be. Most of the errors come from improper use rather than shortcomings of the device. I have a Bushnell, and it was perfect for measuring exactly what we wanted - benchmarking an average top speed, and tracking the average difference between different type pitches, mainly a change-up and fastball. Since the arrival of the Pocket Radar, there's no question that for the price and convenience, that's the way I'd go.
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Mine is specific to the younger ages (thru 12u)...and if top 10 or 20 are hitting the numbers originally posted, let's say in Ohio,....and guessing there are (and I hate to guess) 100 teams in any one age group in travel ball alone...well...I guess his numbers/percentages are realistic just as the one link you posted had suggested as well. I was looking at his total list of ranges as well as his elite status and the fact that we have faced this ourselves in our years of 10u-12u. And we had 2 girls throwing consistantly low 50's all year. I guess it depends upon the pond you play in...
I also know that maaaany never even break 50 till they are in high school if ever.
I understand Sammy's point of the speeds being unrealistic but in the games we have been exposed to it is real on a regular basis. Again, not the norm as mentioned by others but is when your schedule is very tough like many in the tougher orgs go for. Seen some nasty pitchers throwing 46-51 at 12u with incredible control, spin, and off speeds work over some good teams as well. Love seeing a change up come in about 10 mph slower than the fastball or drop ball.
It's for sure not all about speed and many know this. Thanks for the data you posted. I've seen that link before, I believe here on OFC and I had saved it in my bookmarks. Good stuff.
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I have to agree with Les on this. We are entering our 14u season and from what we've seen from 10u till now, I would support the numbers listed by vickingsix.
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Speaking from a 10u and 12U standpoint I would say the numbers Vickingsix put out there are right on. Remember he didnt say those speeds were avg. for the age group. His list says what is "GOOD" and "Elite".
If you want to compete with the top teams in the state at 10u, you better have a girl throwing 47mph plus in game situations. A good change up only make her that much better. I have spent the last 3 years coaching over 200 games at the 10u Level and have seen the best pitching and the worst , plus a whole lot in between.
At the 10u level SPEED KILLS!!!!!!!!!!!
If you want to compete with the top teams in the state at 10u, you better have a girl throwing 47mph plus in game situations. A good change up only make her that much better. I have spent the last 3 years coaching over 200 games at the 10u Level and have seen the best pitching and the worst , plus a whole lot in between.
At the 10u level SPEED KILLS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Agree with subsequent posts that original speeds posted are unrealistic and rare. Also, in response to question about where to get the most accurate speeds, the place NOT to get them from is many pitching coaches. Unfortunately several I know routinely add on 3-5mph what they tell their students and parents.
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If you are thinking about a radar gun; then consider getting a RevFire System instead. It gives you both speed and spin. It is very easy to use and gets a reading every time. I don't think a $900 gun will help make your dd a better pitcher. The RevFire with it's ability to measure speed and spin just might .
I am amazed that with 35 posts on this thread there are less than 5 that have talked about spin. No one is putting forth any spin numbers correlated by age. Speed may kill at 10U but at 18U movement will beat you every time.
Check out the ranges at the NFCA Camps
http://www.revfire.com/files/2010_NFCA_Showcase_RevFire_Spin_Performance.pdf
I am amazed that with 35 posts on this thread there are less than 5 that have talked about spin. No one is putting forth any spin numbers correlated by age. Speed may kill at 10U but at 18U movement will beat you every time.
Check out the ranges at the NFCA Camps
http://www.revfire.com/files/2010_NFCA_Showcase_RevFire_Spin_Performance.pdf
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We got a good deal on a Revfire last spring. It's useful to "track" speed/spin (dd uses it about once a month). Only downfall I've noticed is that the balls are slick (synthetic cover?) but we have found that fine grain sandpaper- or enough drop balls that are not caught, will scuff the balls up nicely
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I use Revfire and while I seldom worry about spin with young pitchers I still use it to keep them intersted. I really like the Revfire and have had it for 2-3 seasons but I may invest in the little radar gun to carry with me to the park instead of my stopwatch.
Spin is very important and I'm striving to get parents to quit putting as much faith in the fastball as a way to judge a pitcher's worth but it's hard to break old habits. It's the same for hitting. Many people believe just because a hitter knocks one over the fence that they can do it any time they want so instead of playing the .600 hitter, they leave the .100 hitter in the line up thinking that BIG hit could come at any time. Drives me nutz. lol
I encourage pitchers at 14u level to have at least 1 spin pitch ready to go along with a fastball for the needed strike and a change up, still one of the most successful pitches in the game. Now if we can get coaches to call the spin pitches so they can use what they have practiced, we'll all have leeped into the 21st century. lol.
Spin is very important and I'm striving to get parents to quit putting as much faith in the fastball as a way to judge a pitcher's worth but it's hard to break old habits. It's the same for hitting. Many people believe just because a hitter knocks one over the fence that they can do it any time they want so instead of playing the .600 hitter, they leave the .100 hitter in the line up thinking that BIG hit could come at any time. Drives me nutz. lol
I encourage pitchers at 14u level to have at least 1 spin pitch ready to go along with a fastball for the needed strike and a change up, still one of the most successful pitches in the game. Now if we can get coaches to call the spin pitches so they can use what they have practiced, we'll all have leeped into the 21st century. lol.
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I purchased a pocket radar and spent the summer clocking just about every pitcher I saw at 14U. 95% of those pitchers threw between 46-52 in game situations. Very few threw 53- 56 and only one I clocked hit 60 mph.
This was at all types of tournaments including ASA States. There are girls who do hit those numbers posted, but it's under 5% for sure.
I agree it takes spin to win at any level above 12U.
This was at all types of tournaments including ASA States. There are girls who do hit those numbers posted, but it's under 5% for sure.
I agree it takes spin to win at any level above 12U.
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I purchased one this summer as well and saw similar results to what you are posting. I am not seeing these 55mph or faster pitchers everywhere
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That's because they aren't everywhere. There is a small, small handful of pitchers at 10, or 11 years old that can actually throw 50+, but in nearly every case they are 5'-8" and 160#. Most of those young girls are nearly adult size and from what I've seen, once the smaller, averaged size, girls close the size gap a little their speed also catches up. Sometimes it's just a matter of size, strength and physics.
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