Play different levels, same tournament

[gcg3refs]

Is a player allowed to play with a 14U team and then sub on 16U team in the same tournament? ASA, NSA, USSSA

Thanks

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

USSSA: No. Can only play in one division per weekend.

 

[Heavy Hitter]

If I remember right for ASA it is no. And, if you play in a sanctioned ASA event were she has to be put on the 16U rooster she is no longer eligible to play 14U for the rest of the year. This might have changed but I know that how it was in the past.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

If I remember right for ASA it is no. And, if you play in a sanctioned ASA event were she has to be put on the 16U rooster she is no longer eligible to play 14U for the rest of the year. This might have changed but I know that how it was in the past.

We did the ASA rules Changes? we pulled up girls from the younger teams all the time for the older girls that were missing.

 

[First2Third]

Didn't Cincy Slammers get busted doing this last year at Firefighters and had to forfeit all their pool wins?

 

[daboss]

We did the ASA rules Changes? we pulled up girls from the younger teams all the time for the older girls that were missing.

I believe Heavy Hitter is correct in his post just as he explained it. We know Mike got USSSA correct in his explanation. If we are wrong, somebody please educate us.

 

[Passion4theGame]

USSSA- NO.
ASA- NO.
once a player goes up a division during a tournament she is locked into that roster.

 

[jt7663]

USSSA- NO.
ASA- NO.
once a player goes up a division during a tournament she is locked into that roster.

Question = She is Locked @ the upper age for just that Tournament Only? Not for upcoming Tournaments?

 

[gcg3refs]

Thank you everyone who responded, I also asked the JO Commissioner of USA Softball of Ohio, he said they definitely CAN NOTplay in both divisions in the same tournament.

 

[Heavy Hitter]

Question = She is Locked @ the upper age for just that Tournament Only? Not for upcoming Tournaments?

Once you go up you have to stay up for the rest of the season

 

[Mykidcanplay]

Why would you even want your DD to play in two age groups in the same torny?
That's a bit much l, especially if the weather is in the 90's... I hope she's not a pitcher or a catcher..

 

[finfan365]

Once you go up you have to stay up for the rest of the season

So, if a 12u player that plays up with a 14u team to help out, she is stuck at 14 for the rest of her season? My daughter is in a position where she is rostered on a 14u team but has been asked to help out a 12u team for one game. She is 12 (wanted to stay with her team that had to move up.) can you tell me where to look to show the coach who's asked? I've looked through asa and usssa rules of play but can't find mention of that.

 

[CARDS]

Generally if the event is a non roster open event / Non Qualifying event there are no issues.

I have seen this happen a handful of times and the player did not try to play a whole tournament with two teams.These were more due to injury and a sister team shuffled some players among age groups. Now one time a team tried to play a 16U down at 14U at a fall ASA Qualifying event and that did not go over well...

If the event you played up in "was a qualifying event" and that team won and she was on the roster she would most likely have to fill out paperwork to play in a National at her age and be released from the older roster.
If she was never on the roster to begin with she was just an illegal player and if not challenged during the event it will not go anywhere anyhow.... As far as these situations effecting the players other summer tournament play I have never seen it happen. I know of several teams over the years using guest players on Sunday or during the event that got caught. Other than forfeiting some games and a bad name the teams were out playing again the next weekend.

There is a difference in tournament play and qualifying/championship play. There is pick up player paperwork for most sanctioning bodies to make adjustments to rosters for championship play that would require approval that would be for National, State tournaments.
Your average tournament say the Aunt Millie's Corn Festival chances are they are not asking for rosters. If they do most are not asking for roster verification.

Back in the day when Patty was our ASA rep she did things right including tournaments. Not so must now with TD etc.

We would get these player ID cards with the players insurance info on the back . These were given out before the season where the player was verified with documentation from our ASA Director in a protective sleeve and lanyard that most ladies attached to their bat bag that could be produced on the field.
I had back up cards in a folder I kept if needed and I did have birth certificate hard copies and insurance forms back then but most events never asked to see them.

Most events today are more focused on the "release of liability" parent and player signature form/roster. If in the event of a challenge then roster verification would take place and again on the back end the line up card will generally match up to the roster.

As the ladies get older they will play in what is called "open events" such as College showcases. Most of these are non roster events 14-18U players and on Sundays you will find ladies whose teams were eliminated competing on other teams or sister teams.

 

[Heavy Hitter]

So, if a 12u player that plays up with a 14u team to help out, she is stuck at 14 for the rest of her season? My daughter is in a position where she is rostered on a 14u team but has been asked to help out a 12u team for one game. She is 12 (wanted to stay with her team that had to move up.) can you tell me where to look to show the coach who's asked? I've looked through asa and usssa rules of play but can't find mention of that.

ASA you can contact Warren Jones Ohio commissioner

http://www.usasoftballohio.org/contacts/

 

[jt7663]

Alot of the checklists are overlooked I know of an NSA Tourney / National Qualifier held in May of this year that a girl moved down for this tournament after playing all season at the upper level. It worked (I Guess) if you overlook the sportsmanship aspect They Won Championship

 

[CARDS]

Alot of the checklists are overlooked I know of an NSA Tourney / National Qualifier held in May of this year that a girl moved down for this tournament after playing all season at the upper level. It worked (I Guess) if you overlook the sportsmanship aspect They Won Championship

Its amazing how many events especially Team / Organization fundraising events have kids at the check in table or a parent that has no idea what they are looking at....Open non roster events I have no problem with teams bringing in players but if the tournament is supposed to be a closed roster event the TDs need to make sure it is.

I remember at the better run events at check in you received a packet with your field and tournament info game slips etc. Some even included discounts at local restaurants. These better run events would ask for birth certificate copies or to at least view the documentation, proof of insurance etc. This is where I would produce our player Photo ID cards and we never had any issues.

At the "MEGA" events like the ones played at Berliner these events are so big many teams use guest players not on their roster. Until they get deep into Bracket play most go unnoticed.

I remember at a SW Ohio ASA Metro several years back we played a North East Ohio team our first pool play game and won 7-2. In our third BRKT game on Sunday we had them and it was almost a completely different team. (we lost 3-2 in a very good game).

I asked the coach where he got the new players and he said check my roster they are on there. They could not play through the week or Saturday because of HS playoffs.
This could have been the case but, we had a couple of parents that swore they seen a couple ladies playing with another team earlier in the day.
When we faced them a month later the team was what we had seen in pool play the first time.

In all the cases I recall where teams had a habit of "guest players" they also wore inexpensive t shirts they could pass out like candy.

 

[coachtomv]

I know when we do our WWAST wounded warrior charity teams, I have to be careful if it happens to be a qualifier. I usually just call the head of the sanctioning body if I am not certain of the eligibility rules. Have to be careful or you can ruin a players eligibility.

I most definitely can have different players Sat-Sun, because some can only make part of a weekend, etc. However they are always age correct with birth certificates available and on the official sanctioned rosters, ASA, NSA, USSSA, whatever. I know because I pay out of pocket for it myself to keep us above board. I have had as many as 15 players on a weekend roster, and never know who will play as we do not turn away players or do tryouts/practices, etc. Most of our events are open roster, non sanctioned, however.

 

[CARDS]

I know when we do our WWAST wounded warrior charity teams, I have to be careful if it happens to be a qualifier. I usually just call the head of the sanctioning body if I am not certain of the eligibility rules. Have to be careful or you can ruin a players eligibility.

I most definitely can have different players Sat-Sun, because some can only make part of a weekend, etc. However they are always age correct with birth certificates available and on the official sanctioned rosters, ASA, NSA, USSSA, whatever. I know because I pay out of pocket for it myself to keep us above board. I have had as many as 15 players on a weekend roster, and never know who will play as we do not turn away players or do tryouts/practices, etc. Most of our events are open roster, non sanctioned, however.

I think one issue could be the blending of events confusing coaches and parents, EX: Team Fundraiser, Charity Event, College showcase and Qualifier all wrapped up in one that many tournaments seem to be under now...
Then newer teams / coaching not knowing the difference as shown by how many parents/coaches seem to be inquiring about the rules. Tournament coordinators also share some of the blame as they want to have a sanctioned qualifying event but run it like an open in a lot of cases.

Another issue is team rosters, We carried 13/14 ladies (sounds like you do as well) but, looking at the teams looking section I would say there are a lot struggling to make 11.

We have an ASA Metro coming up in SW Ohio. Several teams looking for subs do you think the roster will reflect these pick ups? I doubt it. Do you think the tournament coordinator with flag any teams? I doubt it...
I would think you will be seeing at least a half dozen teams at the various age groups with illegal players.

USSSA is the only sanctioning body that has real time roster access. http://www.usssa.com/fastpitch/Athletes/

PGF, ASA, NSA all seem to be struggling with electronic rosters and ease of finding players and current team. (I will say ASA has come a long way the past 10 years though).

 

[coachtomv]

I think one issue could be the blending of events confusing coaches and parents, EX: Team Fundraiser, Charity Event, College showcase and Qualifier all wrapped up in one that many tournaments seem to be under now...
Then newer teams / coaching not knowing the difference as shown by how many parents/coaches seem to be inquiring about the rules. Tournament coordinators also share some of the blame as they want to have a sanctioned qualifying event but run it like an open in a lot of cases.

Another issue is team rosters, We carried 13/14 ladies (sounds like you do as well) but, looking at the teams looking section I would say there are a lot struggling to make 11.

We have an ASA Metro coming up in SW Ohio. Several teams looking for subs do you think the roster will reflect these pick ups? I doubt it. Do you think the tournament coordinator with flag any teams? I doubt it...
I would think you will be seeing at least a half dozen teams at the various age groups with illegal players.

USSSA is the only sanctioning body that has real time roster access. http://www.usssa.com/fastpitch/Athletes/

PGF, ASA, NSA all seem to be struggling with electronic rosters and ease of finding players and current team. (I will say ASA has come a long way the past 10 years though).

Mine was probably a bad example. We do not have any "official" players or full time roster. We just ask for volunteers to donate time and money to play at various events for the Wounded Warrior Amputee Softball Team "The WWAST", charity. Our jerseys are the base donation to play, 30% gets donated, and whatever cash donations or sponsorship we get from families and TD's.

For example this year we did "2" 10u events, "2" 14u events, and an upcoming 16u event so far, then maybe 1-2 fall ones(my DD is 15u). All are just advertised and we take whoever is age eligible to play, no questions asked, no one is turned away if possible or have to tryout. Never have the same roster event to event.

We occasionally have some get "salty" when we win and complain that we stack the team or use illegal subs, but its just sorry grapes. I am extremely careful in being respectful to the game and the tournaments we are sponsored to play in. Many times the WWAST jersey will not make it in on time, so we will have a couple with a different jersey, its the nature of the beast for us. We have been blessed with some great families volunteering and the players tend to be very talented, but we have had numerous rec only players, and all levels of organizations represented, with over 100 girls having played at one time or another the past 3 years.

This weekend coming up in Y-town I already have a couple last minute additions due to HS ball finishing up and they will sport a different jersey or a t-shirt. I will submit a roster at first game for the weekend and if anyone else wants to play they will have to wait until next event.