Playing up at an ASA Q - team cannot play age group at nationals.

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There are alot of options, playing up, in tournaments that are not "qualifiers", If they are that good, they can play up in "showcase" tournaments that are not qualifiers. Ex. Stingrays, Best of the Best, etc. The coach "should be" smart enough to know this, before he makes his schedule. Also, the only way this becomes an issue, is if a team is protested at "nationals". If no one protests, then it is a mute point. However, I believe I heard on hear last year, of this happening at one of the USA/ASA national tournaments and team being told to go home after they started their first game. Now that would ****, and alot of explaining to the parents.

 

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Various ASA Code snippets that apply.

25. Participation in Championship Play is being available at the tournament and signing the ASA Official Tournament Signature Form. Participation in sanctioned events is being available to play, coach, manage, umpire and assist in the organization or otherwise be a part of a sanctioned event other than as an observer.

the following is the key to the fact that just participating in "championship play" not winning a berth is what is specifically not allowed

02. Rostered Player.
a. A player may participate as a regular rostered player on only one team within a division in championship play during a season.

06. No player may be picked up for National Qualifiers, Junior Olympic Hall of
Fame Tournaments or Territory Qualifying tournaments.

Article 508 LEVELS OF CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY. The following are levels of championship play:

A. Local Association Championships.
Local associations may conduct sub district, district or county championships for the purpose of qualifying teams for local association championships. These tournaments are open to registered member teams in accordance with the rules and regulations of the local association, provided such rules and regulations are not in conflict or inconsistent with this Code or the established policies of the ASA. Local associations may not conduct championship play tournaments in locations outside of their association's boundaries without permission from that local association's commissioner.

Local Associations may conduct JO qualifying tournaments for the following years championship play. Teams that participate in these tournaments must use age eligible players for the year the championship play will be played and must meet the returning team requirement to maintain their berth.

B. National Qualifiers. The association shall conduct national qualifiers in the following divisions of championship play.
01. Junior Olympic Girls? Gold 18-Under, Class A 18-Under, 16-Under, 14-Under,12-Under, 10-Under Fast Pitch.

NOTE: Local association berths may be given as additional berths in these Junior Olympic qualifiers.

C. Regional Championships. Regional Championships may be held in any division and classification.

D. Territory Qualifying Tournaments. Territory Qualifying Tournaments will be held in accordance with Article 515 of this Code.

E. National Championships Finals. National Championship Finals will be held in accordance with Article 516 of this Code.

According to ASA code 508 National Qualifiers are Championship play, Regional Qualifiers are not championship play.

I'm not familiar with Warren Jones, I am assuming he is your Ohio ASA rep. Ohio ASA is free to add whatever local restrictions they want, similar to SoCal's Yellow book, but that doesn't make it ASA National code and leaves it as something that you have local control over to change.

For the team that accepted the berth to Easterns last fall, that might be different than just playing in a regional qualifier. I am not sure when accepting a berth locks you to a roster (probably a local rule, very few roster rules on a national level). Every local ASA association sets it's own dates for roster submission and how late players can be added (other than pick up players for nationals controlled by National rule)

IME the one that gets teams into trouble the most often is A. Local Association Championships. This is your ASA State tournament. Playing up an age level at your ASA state looking to play better competition is the most likely way to get yourself in trouble for Nationals. There was at least one team last year 12U that played 14U ASA State and was excluded from ASA 12U nationals.

I understand the better safe than sorry route. I just think people misunderstand Regionals. Regionals and B nationals don't have a limited berth structure that is controlled by the National office. The number of berths available for those is controlled locally and the rules for entry are controlled locally as well. The only reason they even include Regionals as Championship play is that they don't want someone rostering at both say a 12UA Eastern Regional and a 12UA National in the same year and playing for both teams (i.e. leaving one when finished early and going to join a team at another).

 

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I think you will find out the Laser Gold are playing Nationals in NSA, so it doesn't effect them. So coaches can play up ,like Ohio Wave stated , to get kids ready for Nationals. I had to watch this last year, letting my dd play as a sub and up. Knowing she was going to NSA Nationals. So as parents and coaches you need to know the rules. ASA USSSA, NSA, Pony, each have differrent rules.

 

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If the above mentioned teams wanted to challenge themselves and were good enought to win a qualifier in an older age bracket why wouldn't they want to continue challenging themselves and play in an older nationals?

Wouldn't there be a big difference between a qualifier in Ohio and a national? I would think a 16u qualifier in Ohio might be more along the level of competition of a 14u national? Are Ohio teams a lot better then I think? Don't have the experience to gage.

 

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Wouldn't there be a big difference between a qualifier in Ohio and a national? I would think a 16u qualifier in Ohio might be more along the level of competition of a 14u national? Are Ohio teams a lot better then I think? Don't have the experience to gage.

is it OK to play up in age at Nationals ? just curious. Never heard of a team attempting it. Playing up at the state level is totally not related to playing up at the natl level. My point just because you are good enough to win some small tourney playing up in age in ohio (even a qualifier which means next to nothing) doesn't mean you are ready play up nationally .

Would'nt ASA removing the regional national qualifier's as championship play take care of the problem ? the state tourney would still fall under championship play and any USA natl qualifier would also. But get rid of the possibility that playing in a eastern natl qualifier could cost you dearly when you register at USA natl's . MD

 

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is it OK to play up in age at Nationals ? just curious. Never heard of a team attempting it. Playing up at the state level is totally not related to playing up at the natl level. My point just because you are good enough to win some small tourney playing up in age in ohio (even a qualifier which means next to nothing) doesn't mean you are ready play up nationally .

We looked at potentially playing in an 18UA Regional vs 16UA USA/ASA National because the locations for 16UA National and regionals all **** this year. 16UA Northern is Kentucky (someone should check a map, that's not north) and the main one is in Texas. Unfortunately the 18UA Regional sites aren't much better.

 

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playing up in a regional sounds reasonable if you really have a loaded team, plus playing up at 18 with 16u's isn't as big a deal as playing up at 12 or 14 or 16u. less differences physically I mean. MD the older you get the easier it is to play up ? maybe , maybe not ???

 

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playing up in a regional sounds reasonable if you really have a loaded team, plus playing up at 18 with 16u's isn't as big a deal as playing up at 12 or 14 or 16u. less differences physically I mean. MD the older you get the easier it is to play up ? maybe , maybe not ???

Dan, the biggest difference we've seen between the 16's & 18's is hitting and base-running, especiallly from a 1st year 16u to 2nd year 18u. 18's are more consistent with putting the ball on play and much smarter and aggressive on the bases. I think there a couple 16u teams in the state that could be competitve at 18u.

 

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Deja Vu all over AGAIN!

There was indeed a lengthy discussion on this when I brought the subject up last fall, I got jumped all over when I did so, and any number of false agendas were attributed to me, at the time I stated and will do so again, I would hate to see a good Ohio team sent home from an ASA National because they were not informed properly.

I think everyone here should be aware of an addition to the ASA Code that was passed at the last annual meeting:

Article 501 ELIGIBILITY.

A. Eligibility Compliance Required By Each Player, Manager and
Team.

01. It is the duty of each player, player?s parent (if applicable),
manager, coach and team to review ASA?s eligibility
requirements and comply with ASA?s eligibility requirements.
Each team manager/coach is responsible for complying with
the eligibility requirements and other requirements set forth
in the ASA Code as to his/her team. This specifically
includes, without limitation, eligibility requirements
pertaining to proper classification, proper divisions, eligible
pick up player requirements, eligible age requirements and all
other eligibility requirements.

02. As to eligibility matters, any assurances or statements from
ASA members, ASA commissioners or ASA officials other than
ASA?s Executive Director are not binding and shall not be
binding upon ASA and shall not constitute a valid excuse for a
team?s, manager?s or player?s failure to comply with any
eligibility requirement. ASA disclaims any and all liability for
any player, team, manager or coach?s reliance?s upon
assurances of persons other than ASA?s Executive Director.
ASA disclaims any and all liability for any player, team,
manager or coach?s failure to comply with all eligibility
requirements.

03. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are ineligible
under the ASA Code and that incur travel and other expenses
in connection with an ASA tournament do so at their own risk
and peril. Teams, players, coaches and managers that are
ineligible under the ASA Code are subject to disqualification
or forfeiture at any time, as otherwise provided for in the ASA
Code (i.e. upon the timely protest of any other team or
official).

04. Any ASA official?s signature (i.e. Commissioner?s signature) on
a roster form or any other document shall not be considered
as a determination of the eligibility of a player or team.
Eligibility of players or teams shall be governed as otherwise
provided in the Code. Any solicitation or invitation for a team
to participate in an ASA tournament by a Tournament Director
or other ASA Official shall not be considered a determination
of that team?s eligibility. Eligibility of players or teams shall
be exclusively governed as provided in the Code.

Basically for those of you that took the time to read this far, the only opinion that counts is that of ASA National Office in Oklahoma City.

Good luck sorting it out, a few horses have already left the barn. Too bad really.

 

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I think you will find out the Laser Gold are playing Nationals in NSA, so it doesn't effect them. So coaches can play up ,like Ohio Wave stated , to get kids ready for Nationals. I had to watch this last year, letting my dd play as a sub and up. Knowing she was going to NSA Nationals. So as parents and coaches you need to know the rules. ASA USSSA, NSA, Pony, each have differrent rules.

Yes, the team has already qualified for NSA Nationals and has stated that it is their intent to go.

 

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So how have teams gotten away with this in the past? It is not like a new thing having teams play up, especially after already qualifying and wanting more challenges to prepare. I find it hard to believe that it was all non-qualifier tournaments, heck there have been teams playing up two age groups in the past.
And how have kids been able to play down at national tournaments? You can't say kids that played an entire season with their team at say 14u (or any age group) then turn around and play as a pickup player for 12u at national tournaments.

It doesn't seem very fair if you paid your registration as a 16u, qualified as a 16u and wanted to challenge the team at 18u should be punished. By playing up maybe they are giving another 16u team an opportunity to go deeper on a Sunday also.

 

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Basically pick what national you want to go to and play up in every association but that one. Seems simple to to me

 

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basically pick what national you want to go to and play up in every association but that one. Seems simple to to me

exactly!

 

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How many teams had an "oops moment" I wonder.