score book question

[RRB2]

I was talking to another coach last night and we were going through different scenarios and there was one we could not agree on.

Runner on first, batter hits the ball to third and she throws it to second, the runner beats the throw and is safe at second. How is that scored in the book for the hitter?

AND runner on first, batter hits the ball to third and she throws it to second and there is an error causing the runner to be safe at second. Again how is that scored for the hitter?

thanks

 

[snoman76]

I look at it this way, If they would of attempted the out at first, would they get her out? If the answer is yes then it's a fielders choice.

 

[flygirlsdad]

Fielders choice in both scenarios.

 

[6and22dad]

I agree, fielders choice in both scenarios

 

[coachjwb]

Fielder's choice in the first example if in the scorekeeper's judgement a good throw to first would have gotten her out.

In the second example, I believe that is technically scored as a reached by error, though the impact on the batting average is the same (0 for 1).

 

[Fairman]

Really?

(in the first scenario)
There was no out recorded. How could it be a fielders choice?
Since you can't anticipate an out, it should be a hit.

(in the second scenario)
The error occurred on the attempt at second.
That would be a fielder's choice with an error. The error would negate the hit.

 

[hot corner]

You don't have to record an out for it to be a fielder's choice

 

[oiler_pride]

Right out of the ATEC Scoring manual:

Credit a Fielders Choice:
when a ball is put in play where a play is made on any lead runner and an out
occurs, or an out would have occurred had no error taken place, or the runner is
safe, but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first

 

[wvanalmsick]

Right out of the ATEC Scoring manual:

Credit a Fielders Choice:
when a ball is put in play where a play is made on any lead runner and an out
occurs, or an out would have occurred had no error taken place, or the runner is
safe, but the batter would have been out had the initial play been made at first

Winner, winner Chicken dinner!!!

 

[GeneralsDad]

Not trying to dig on anyone, but this is why it's important to understand the rules of scoring when keeping the book. I see it every year where half of a team is hitting .400+, and girls bunting for a triple. And be sure you score your own DD with the same criteria as everyone else.

 

[backstop09]

The scorer has to consider what would have happened at first had the initial play been made on the batter-runner.

Scenario 1, batter-runner at first would have been out, score play at second base FC
Scenario 1, batter-runner at first would have been safe, score play at second base infield single
Scenario 2, batter-runner at first would have been out, score play at second base FC
Scenario 2, batter-runner at first would have been safe, score play at second base E4

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Scenario 1 is either hit or FC depending on whether BR would have been out had the initial play been made at first.

Scenario 2 is runner reaches 2B on the error and BR reaches on FC since OP says runner was safe due to an error.

 

[backstop09]

Not trying to nitpick and certainly don't want to risk a thread hijack, but the OP didn't state how many outs there were. Assuming there were two outs in Scenario 2 and the batter-runner would have been out and the inning ended if a play had been made at first base, does the second baseman still get charged with an error? I believe the answer probably is "yes" but somehow it doesn't seem right that she should be charged with an error since the third baseman made the decision to throw to second base instead of first. If the third baseman had thrown to first, the inning would have ended and the second baseman would never have had an opportunity to be charged with an error.

 

[GeneralsDad]

Still an error

 

[coachjwb]

Still an error but not necessarily on 2B ... OP doesn't say if it was a bad throw or a drop.

Pitcher gets "relief" from earned runs if any score subsequently, but not the fielders making the play. By the way, if the pitcher is the one who threw the ball away, she gets the error, but still no earned runs if anyone scores after what would have been the 3rd out.

 

[initfor51]

Can't say either way since the OP didn't say if the batter runner could have been out if throw was made.

Thereare few different answers. Would need to know the possible out scenario. Oilerpride had it correct by just citing the book since we don't know the whole scenario.

 

[kjn40]

I'm going to revive this thread since I was trying to come up with an answer to a situation that occurred recently.
Batter hits to SS. SS throws to 2B but 2b isn't quite where she should be and runner is safe. I scored the batter with a FC since in my opinion the batter would have been out if the throw had been made to 1st. The umpire asked me how I scored the batter since the batter already had an HR and a triple and he was already thinking this girl might be able to hit for a cycle. I told him I scored it an FC and he said that was wrong since no out was recorded. I've kept score for years for boys baseball, travel ball and hs softball and always scored this situation as an FC. It sounds like most of you would agree that I was correct and Oiler pride's post from the ATEC manual seems to agree with my opinion also. Also, there is a scorer's opinion that sometimes comes into play with a FC....correct? Just want to make sure I haven't been doing things wrong all these years.

 

[SOFTBALLS14]

Here you go..... straight out of NCAA Scorebook Rules....... Hope it helps clarify all you need.....Its what we use for all our scoring Travel and HS.. Good Luck!! You can Google it or here is the link..... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

ERROR
SECTION 21. a. An error is charged against any fielder for each misplay (i.e., fielding, wild
throws, missed catches on good throws) that prolongs the life of a batter (causes one or
pitches to be thrown) or a runner or permits a runner to advance. This includes a
dropped foul ball unless it was allowed to drop intentionally to prevent a runner from
advancing.


e. If a throw is made to a base and more than one fielder could have received the throw
but neither did, an error is charged to the fielder who should have received the throw.
FIELDER’S CHOICE
SECTION 7. A fielder’s choice is credited in the following situations:
a. To a batter:
1. When a ball is put in play and any preceding runner is forced out on the hit or would
have been out had no error occurred.
2. When a ball is put in play and the lead runner is safe but the batter would have been
out had the initial play gone to first base.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

ERROR
SECTION 21. a. An error is charged against any fielder for each misplay (i.e., fielding, wild
...
e. If a throw is made to a base and more than one fielder could have received the throw
but neither did, an error is charged to the fielder who should have received the throw.

That's not applicable to kjn40's case (see bold).

 

[coachjwb]

It's a fielder's choice in my book, and it's a little curious that an umpire would express an opinion on book scoring.